Has anyone had to file a USPS insurance claim on a raw mint/gem mint (psa 9-10 condition) card? I’m curious as to how proof of value would be determined if you had the card in your collection for a while so there is either no recent purchase value or the value has appreciated significantly since the purchase. Also, assume there are no comparable condition raw mint ones up for sale so cost of replacement can’t be determined.
The tricky part is the fact that the card isn’t graded yet so I’m not sure if they would allow a conservative estimate of the grade like psa 9 value minus grading fees in this situation. Even then that’s not ideal for a card that has a 50/50 shot at a 10 where the value different between 9 and 10 can be massive.
I’m pretty sure your claim can only be for what you insured it for not the actual value of the card. If you only insured it for $100 but the card is worth $1,000 the claim you make will only get you back at best $100.
@pokecollectoramy the package is a psa sub and it’s insured for $4,700 which is a sort of conservative estimate of the value of the cards. However, a lot of the cards there are clear cut values in psa 9-10 but since they are raw some of them don’t have clear values. Even if they’re in comparable condition, I don’t know if you can use the psa graded values (minus the cost of grading) for an insurance claim.
And @lapraslaughing I know, I insured what I believe to be the full value of the cards. The issue is determining the fair market value for the raw ungraded version of the card when there may not be recent sales data for it when there IS clear sales data for a graded one in comparable condition. And even if there is recent sales data for raw, that isn’t representative of the cost of replacement if there aren’t any on the market or they’re priced much higher now.
I’d insure it for what the 10 would be worth or higher. The cost of insurance isn’t really insanely outrageous most of the time. It’s all a matter of risk. Do you want to risk the value of a 10 vs the small percentage of insurance you pay. The odds of anything happening are slim but there is still risk and you just have to decide wether the risk or money is more important
i had the same question when leonhart mentioned his raw 1st edition charizard was lost in the mail. i lost a graded card which had a hard transaction value. if you lost a raw card, yeah, i am not sure how you can prove anything. i feel like if usps wants to be the asshole, they can totally screw you over and you have no recourse against their rebuttal to pay for your insured value. again, in a court of law, if you don’t have proof, you get nothing…
It is an interesting question for sure because USPS doesn’t know what was in the package. Your best bet, I would think, when submitting proof of value in the claim is to show your invoice for PSA which includes the insured value for each of the cards you sent along with pictures of the cards together and the packaging showing the insurance paid for
@lapraslaughing but my point is regardless of what u insure it for, let’s say the psa 10 value, USPS will ask for proof of value and since the card isn’t graded yet they can potentially dispute the value of the card if they wanted. I’m just wondering if anyone has dealt with that dispute of value. Luckily raw mint prices for high end cards are sometimes around psa 9 prices of even higher so I could probably reference those prices if they existed and get that value if it was lost but still. When you have a card that has a 50/50 shot at a 9 and 10 and the price difference is potentially 5x it’s hard to pin the value down on that. A lot of people will have varying opinions on whether or not a card will get a 9 or 10 so it’s very subjective but I’m wondering if you can even reference those prices when determining value in the insurance claim.
Ah gotcha I misunderstood what you were asking. I had to make some USPS claims before however from my experience they will try to nickel and dime you if they can. In the topic of this high end card if you can prove it’s value is close to the value you insured it for then you should be able to get that insurance value. Value is very broad and people can value things differently. Long story short from the few times I had to make claims they have paid what I insured for after seeing proof that it had value close to what it was insured for. Take this with a grain of salt however because none of these payouts topped 500 USD when you’re talking 4700+ the fight they put up to payout as little as they can will probably be a lot more. Hope this helps!
@lapraslaughing yeah they’re definitely going to fight more and more as the price gets higher lol. What item did u have that got lost and how did you show them proof? Recent sales or what was available on the market at the time? Unless it was just a standard mass produced retail item then the price is clear cut
All the items were either items I had sold or purchased so it was fairly clear what the value was since the sale was not less then a week or two old by the time it was deemed missing.
Leonhart’s Charizard didn’t super look like a 10 to me, but even if it was flawless I can’t imagine USPS agreeing to dole out PSA 10 price without a fight. I’m interested to see if he can get the full value through a claim. I sent a lot of low pop legendary collection reverses to PSA last month, the kinds of cards where they’re $200 in a 9 but ten times that in a 10. Had something happened to them, would be a nightmare trying to convince insurance that they deserved a 10. Or imagine something with an even bigger 9/10 discrepancy like Neo Gen slowking.
I’ve had to open up an insurance claim just once before for a package that was insured for $4000. It was ungraded NM/M neo gen to neo rev unlimited, 1st edition, and japanese full sets + some extra. It was delivered to me opened with items coming out of the box. Fortunately 99% of the items were undamaged and still in NM/M condition, but there were about five notable cards that appeared to be damaged from shipment. I took everything to a USPS office and they checked out the box and packing material to make sure it was sturdy. After they said it looked good I showed them the damage to the five cards and they agreed it was possibly from the shipment. They said they usually take the items that are damaged and destroy them, then pay out their full value. I asked if they would consider to pay out for the damaged value and let me keep the damaged cards which they agreed to. I actually pulled up tcgplayer on my phone to show them the nm value, then the damaged value of the five cards and they agreed to pay out the few hundred dollars of damage to the cards. I know tcgplayer is most likely not the source you’d use for the cards you sent, but it was the easiest way I thought to do it since pulling up ebay sold listings and going through all of them would be a bit more difficult. My point in all of this was that the employees were very understanding and were wanting to work with me to get to a reasonable solution. If you show them what, if any, availability in the market there has been including the PSA versions of the cards, then I believe they will work with you to get the full amount of the insured order. I know my experience is not the same as I had the physical cards with me, but I thought it may help.
@qwachansey yeah that’s what I’m saying. Such a huge value discrepancy between some 9s and 10s but the fact that the card wasn’t graded yet and without them seeing the actual card it’s basically just your word on the condition of the card. The concept of proof of value for a lost item is funny to me anyways because people can make up stuff and say cards were in better shape and worth more than they actually were. Even if you had to show a receipt for proof of value, you could just show a receipt for a random item that’s the same weight as the shipped one and worth the insured amount so it all matches up even thought that’s not the actual item you shipped.
My point is that people who want to commit insurance fraud are going to do it at probably the same rate anyways so the proof of value thing just seems like a way for them to try and get out of paying full insured value to those who really need it. You paid extra for it and they failed to do their job (assuming no fraud). If they do pay out the full insured amount without resistance almost every time then it’s not really an issue. I just don’t like the idea of the customer paying full value for insurance and then USPS tries not to pay the full insured amount. Sounds like a lot of people would be over-insuring if that was the case because USPS wasn’t going to pay the full insured value if it was lost and they determined the market value to be lower than the amount you insured for and then they are just pocketing those extra insurance premiums.
@eyesofmadara Appreciate you telling me about how you went about showing proof of value. Definitely no clear cut way through the situation for items with limited raw markets or huge price gaps between 9s and 10s. Luckily I haven’t had any psa subs get lost in the mail on their way there, knock on wood. I hope nobody has to deal with that because it could be a pain.