As I stated above:
Edit: could be a one off because I can’t find anybody anywhere else besides e4 discussing it.
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This could be a very real thing. I can definitely see someone over there pitching a marketing ploy to lure people into sending bulk subs they normally wouldn’t do. Hell, it lured me in to submit cards for the first time. If they receive enough shakedown money with very little friction, this might become the new norm for upping their profit margins.
Honestly a post-grade tax* is a good idea (for PSA), but the idea needs to be fleshed out and customers need to have the system explained to them up front.
* More specifically, the total fee for card grading would be an upfront service speed charge, e.g.,
Bulk (75+ business days) - $8/card
Regular (20+ business days) - $15/card
Expedited (7+ business days) - $25/card
Priority (1+ business days) - $60/card
AND a 2% post-grade market value charge. Perhaps even a graduated percentage (e.g., bulk 5%, regular 3%, expedited 2%, priority 1%). There’s a ton of math that would need to be done to arrive at a system that makes sense, but let’s run with these numbers for now.
This fixes the submitters who are putting 1st edition base charizards in their bulk submissions. In PSA’s mind, these customers are already cheating the system and effectively causing them to lose out on money that should have been paid to them, so I doubt they’re much concerned by the customers who would be greatly offended with this change.
Let’s compare the current system with the above proposed system to see how much two parties would pay, for three different scenarios, which I’d guess is pretty representative of the majority of submitters:
Card: 1st edition Base Set Charizard (that will grade PSA 8, whose current market value is ~$3000)
The guy that submits incredibly expensive cards via bulk
| Current System | Proposed System | |
| Processing Fee | $8 | $8 |
| Post-Grade Tax | 0 | $60 |
| Total | $8 | $68 |
The guy that purchased the card for a raw price of $650 and enters his valuation for the PSA submission for the same amount (while knowing that the card is definitely PSA7+ and therefore likely to be worth >$2,000)
| Current System | Proposed System | |
| Processing Fee | $75 | $25 |
| Post-Grade Tax | 0 | $60 |
| Total | $75 | $80 |
The overzealous rule follower (prices assume he’s choosing the equivalent turnaround time with the new system)
| Current System | Proposed System | |
| Processing Fee | $200 | $60 |
| Post-Grade Tax | $0 | $60 |
| Total | $200 | $120 |
Now of course this is only one example, and of course I played with the numbers a bit so they seem at least a little bit sensible upon first glance, but this would effectively smother out the customers like example #1 who are skirting their system, while keeping things fair for most(ly) honest customers (I have a feeling the majority of us on the forum most closely align to example #2, who aren’t flagrantly skirting the valuation guidelines but are definitely using them in our benefit so we’re not paying an ungodly amount). While PSA would be technically losing money on this single example compared to the current system, I think their numbers would probably agree that the vast majority of their customers are not making submissions with valuations on the higher end of the customer’s estimated grade market value.
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How about this question.
Why in the world is there a difference in cost based on the cards value?
I mean seriously. What the heck difference does it make?
Is the card graded differently based on its value which would mean a 99.00 card is given a different number than an exact condition 1000.00 card?
Let me say that again.
Is the card given a different number based on its value which would mean a 99.00 card is given a different number than an exact condition 1000.00 card?
No! Then why should it cost more?
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That thought crossed my mind too, will I be more likely getting PSA 10 if I submit at higher service level? Or will some graders recognize a card in a bulk sub as being too valuable at PSA 10 so they are more strict and dock down to PSA 9?
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Good points also.
Should you expect a different quality of service based on the dollar amount you pay???
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Insurance, it’s very transparent and the fact that question is being posed is ridiculous.
If Psa are dealing with higher risk items, i.e a £5k card where a minute incident during grading can affect many thousands in value (due to a worse grade) or equally during shipping and handling, then they are well within their rights to charge more. If anything psa are very lenient on this, (as we have established this has not happened to anyone other than op).
Compare it to the postal services and insurance or another example PWCC. They charge between 5 and 15% for listing a card on a certain eBay page! Psa are actually trusted to grade the cards accurately, and as stated, increase the value of the collectible substantially.
Personally, reading all these responses makes it clear that people take the mickey with bulk orders, (even those that are the big boys of the game), and honestly makes me think psa are right to start clamping down on this.
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They should be providing the same service either way. I don’t see what additional costs they have to reflect the increase in price other than insurance and if they only insure the value you list the cards at, where is the risk? Also even if they insure at some insane market or above market speculation price, there’s no way insurance is that expensive for a company that big with very few claims. In short, it just feels like a money grab. We wanted pokemon to be treated the same as their less volatile (pricing) sports memorabilia counterparts? Be careful what you wish for.
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Is this actually the case? Anyone have proof of this policy change from declaring raw value to declaring graded value?
If this is the case I’m glad PSA was 100% upfront and transparent with it’s customers regarding this change in policy rather than springing these changes on customers without notice.
But seriously, does anyone have a definitive answer on why this happening now?
The difference in cost basis per value is simple, liability. PSA is a business, not a person on Instagram. If any business finds out cards are being grossly undervalued, they are going to cover themselves. Even when I submitted for E4 members I would bump the $500+ cards. I know Ludkins does the same.
It should be mentioned PSA is still very lenient on value declaration. This is one instance out of 1,000’s of annual Pokémon submissions.
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“Reps and those who assist in taking in submissions should be telling you, and any customer, to take into consideration the value of the card once it is graded in a PSA slab”
This is exactly what I was told in my last email after I had asked if there is anywhere in writing stating that on their site/sub forms that I can be charged extra based on the graded card and not the raw value of the card. So he really didn’t have an answer for me, just that reps SHOULD be telling customers this is the case lol…
Anyways I have to wait until Monday until any updates as my concerns are apparently being forwarded to the boss and she will get back to me by then.
Even if this is how PSA will be operating going forward, I wouldn’t mind because I fully understand people send in mint high value cards in the $99 value submission bulk and PSA wants their moneys worth. My problem is that this has never been a problem before and it should have been made apparent to me before my submission was started that I could possibly be charged different service levels based on the value of the graded card, but I wasn’t.
I was not offered any other solution at this point now that the cards have been graded. I was only told basically “Hi I need your approval to charge your card these extra charges or I cannot release your cards.”
I’ll keep everyone posted as this goes along…
A massive one. Let’s just make the numbers a little larger to demonstrate.
Do you seriously think a $40k card and a $40 card should cost the same to submit? Even if PSA treats them the same way in the grading process, well one is going same day turnaround which requires more immediate resources. The other is going 85 day bulk. The $40k card poses a $40k liability to PSA if they were to mishandle and damage it. If the building burns down they have to pay out $40k on it. A massive difference. They do not want $40k cards sitting in their building as a liability for 85 days. The difference between moving 5 figure + cards out same day vs. allowing them to sit in PSA for 85 business days literally takes a 0 or two off their total liability any given day I would imagine.
I’ve always heard that bulk and same day cards are treated and graded in the same way and I’ve never understood nor agreed with it. In reality I don’t even think it is the case and I really hope it’s not. If I pay $500 to send in a RAW MINT base zard I WANT THEM TO TAKE SPECIAL CARE OF IT. I want more eyes to see it. I don’t want it treated or handled like a bulk card. I want special more expert experts handling it as opposed to new graders. In reality as I mentioned I think they are indeed treated differently. I assume higher sub cards actually get the 2 grader treatment that they state as their process. I assume many bulk cards simply get graded by one grader but that could be my tin foil hat talking.
I’ve always been honest about my valuations and submitted them at levels reflecting what I had paid for them. PSA adds value and sometimes they add enough to make $50 raw cards into $500 graded cards. That is the entire attraction of their service and it is ridiculous that they would expect buyers to pay extra in those cases.
Unfortunately not everyone is honest in that way during submission and people consistently have graded multi thousand dollar cards through bulk. I can’t blame them for trying to chase down that money, it should just be based on raw mint value not PSA 10 value because there are loads of people abusing the $99 threshold even considering the raw mint values.
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Can they just keep your cards if you don’t agree to pay the extra 200+ they decided your cards are worth now that they received good grades?
PSA takes on exactly ZERO extra liability for higher end cards. Claims are so minuscule as to not exist at all. The processes are identical. Hence, the cost should be the same. Don’t fall for the smoke and mirrors disguised as a business strategy/model.
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How are the determining a cards value? Auction? BIN? OBO? All? Makes a big difference
#1 They don’t take special care of it. You might ‘want them to’ but they don’t. It simply gets stacked at the front of the queue. You want ‘better experts’ grading your cards? All I can say is LOL. Why do you think they stopped allowing access “beyond the green door” a decade ago? They didn’t want their secrets out.
#2 If the building burns down they would only have to pay the value you declared. You sign the paper for 99.00…that’s all you get.
There’s a couple other naive assumptions I could address but I don’t want to pile on.
I will say again, I have submitted over 500 orders which contained 10s of thousands of cards and have never once declared a hundred bucks. The reason being, it didn’t matter so why blow up the CODB. And I’m not the only one. In fact, you’re the only person I’ve seen in 25 years who declared everything. I guarantee you nobody else here even on E4 does.
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Some of it is probably based on their price guide. Those not listed are probably checked on auctions.
www.psacard.com/smrpriceguide/non-sports-tcg-card-values/7/
Please don’t hold back. Call me out everywhere needed because I simply don’t understand.
I get what you are saying above and it makes some sense assuming you’d be fine taking what you declared as value in the event of a total loss. Which let’s just say you would.
Another point you are missing assuming my earlier ones were wrong… They have liability through their Financial Guarantee. LIFETIME liability.If they grade a $40k card vs a $40 card they have down the line liability for every single card for it’s market value for life. That alone necessitates and makes it logical why someone would have to spend something like $500 to grade it today vs. $8 bulk today. You want a $40k lifetime guarantee that in 40 years may literally be guaranteeing a card which then may be worth $1M all for a submission fee of $8?
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Your response to #1 had me cracking up. What do their “special graders” make compared to their normal bulk graders? An extra dollar an hour? #2 You’re very right about liability. Aside from only paying out declared values; they get mega discounts on a plethora of policies to cover their asses throughout the year and I’m sure barely deal with very few claims that would even cause a blip for the insurer to consider raising their premiums. I’d be surprised if they even have claims of high enough dollars to even justify paying a deductible instead of just covering outright. If people are putting low liability values when the cards are raw, why would the liability go up after the cards are friggin slabbed in protection? I understand that $5,000 raw cards potentially valued at 15,000+ dollars when graded have SOME risk. But that’s such an outlier. People are sending in cards that they purchased raw for anything from 10 dollars to 300 and a volatile market sometimes pushes them to higher price points on slab premiums for 10 grades. To me, it’s just silly to start nickel and diming people for anything other than a really big item card that shouldn’t have been placed in bulk even when raw.
Good points. I guess I’d wonder that the 500.00 extra income would matter if they lost 40,000.00. Honestly, I really believe in all their graders. They work hard and seriously do a fine job. I trust them.
And you’re right, I would be SICK if they damaged a high end card like that and got nothing. Fortunately, it hasn’t happened…yet;)