@hyruleguardian Hey man, just saw your reply. I didn’t see page 2 before I sent my last reply. Appreciate the reply and glad this is drawing out the discussion.
I had read the parts of that thread in which you replied to King Pokemon’s comment of:
“It was pretty conclusive at the time. You see, based on sports cards values we were looking for Pokemon “rookie” cards. It had something to do with licensing and production dates where we determined the green/blue back cards were first and like I said earlier, even media Factory concurred. Unfortunately there were just too few copies available to use them so we settled on a MF release which we could get 5000 of.”
With:
“King Pokémon Wow that does seem pretty conclusive then…”
…
"So, in terms of production date it seems like we can say:
1995: Topsun (possibly no-numbers first)
1995: Bandai (unclear if before or after the Topsun cards although Gary did speak to a MF rep claiming Topsun was first)
1996: Media Factory (no rarity first)
(1995-1997: Topsun holos)?"
Until I stumbled upon that post, I was pretty adamant about sticking to 96 Bandai/Cardass as the first release. Finding and reading this discussion a couple of months ago, between two E4 posters I admire most, well it tipped the scales for me. My apologies if I misunderstood or read too much into it.
OK! So let me consider another update to the OP and let’s keep the discussion going!
Thanks for pointing that out, I only read the part of the conversation you linked to, and not through the whole thread.
In any case, that evidence is all from Gary, I was just a bystander haha.
It does seem that Gary’s conversation with Media Factory is the best evidence we may have that the Topsun cards were made first, although even then any conversation (even one that involved Gary) is ultimately hearsay and not definitive proof.
@enlightenedbulbasaur fair point on being a bystander to the convo. More than anything I wanted to draw out this vintage sets conversation, and that seems to be happening! I’m a late-comer to Pokémon (2018), started by collecting with my son. I was immediately taken by the art and history of vintage. I love this stuff!
I’ve now updated my initial post to really take out the ordering and only refer to the speculation around it all. I also linked to the new TopSun debate article thread. Thanks again for your input on this and hundreds of other topics here on E4!
@accio, If you intend on keeping this post you should at least update the Meiji entry to 1997. It is very misleading when you in fact have the correct information and choose not update the actual post, opting instead to append a comment.
Especially when you know how much misinformation is already swimming around.
@rainbowgx I’ve updated the Meiji information to reflect an initial 1997 release. Previously I thought you meant there was a 1997 Promo set, not a full release of cards. Seeing that error now, I’ve updated the OP. Thanks again for the added detail!
@accio , A promo is a card released for promotional purposes. For example they may be given away at special events, or included as part of the sale of particular products etc.
They are incentive cards.
When included with the chocolate coated snacks they were used to incentivise pokemon fans to purchase snacks they perhaps would not have selected on their own.
This helped Meiji increase sales.
This helped advertise the pokemon brand.
It results in a winning collaboration.
Promos aren’t excluded from having full set releases, as you can tell by the very fleshed out Meiji 1997 set.
As a side note, Meiji also ran promotions later with the TCG and TCG Meiji promo cards such as this one, were produced. You can see the Meiji logo in the bottom left corner.
I’m still not a fan of these cards being called “1995 Topsun” in the OP. We shouldn’t let PSA’s laziness dictate the terms we use as collectors.
Again, as the other discussion thread shows, there is *no direct evidence* that Topsun were printed in 1995. If anything, there is probably more circumstantial evidence showing that the cards were printed in 1996 or even 1997. But the only thing we know for sure is that 1997 release.
It feels like there is a concerted effort for Topsun to be “the first” recently because it seems like a lot of people have a vested interest in it being “the first” after following the trends and pouring a lot of money into it.
People are going to probably read the OP here and see things like “1995 Topsun” along with the comment “many collectors think it was first” and then just use that as evidence in their head to assume it’s first. The problem is - “some collectors say it might have been the first” should not be used as evidence for it being the first.
Sorry, I really just want to throw cold water on this because it’s getting out of hand.
All we know is that Bandai Carddass Series 1 was released in September 1996, Base Set was released in October 1996, and Topsun was released in March 1997.
The cards in ANY of these sets could have been manufactured well before the actual date of release.
Again, there is no good reason to believe that Topsun was manufactured first.
Would we even be having this conversation if PSA had never mischaracterized Topsun as “1995” (just like they mislabel the 3rd tournament Trophy Pikachu as “1999” along with numerous other errors)? My guess is probably not.
If PSA states these are from 1995, that’s enough evidence for me that they’re NOT from 1995, haha. PSA has graded Pichu cards as Raichu; German non Base Set cards; cards with fake 1st edition stamps or fake autographs; and use 5+ different labels for the same exact cards. Not to start bashing on PSA, since making a mistake is human nature, nobody is perfect. And overall they’ve still done a pretty good job as a grading company, ngl (although their current backlog is bs they need to fix tbh). But PSA labeling Topsun cards as 1995 is completely off-topic and a useless argument imo.
^I agree. These collection forums are amazing and Im very glad I just found this info. Ive been trying to research these early Japanese carddass products and it’s hard to find legit information. Appreciate it! No longer have to waste hours combing Google lol
But yes. Like you said, does anyone have any information about the sealdass sets? Any and all? Amada seals? bandai vending stickers? Topps stickers? Carddass sets that had “bonus” aka secret rare, sealdass sticker “sheet” cards? Thanks!
Long time lurker that finally created an account just to say a huge thank you to @shizzlemetimbers and @enlightenedbulbasaur for the work you do to debunk this nonsense that Topsun was printed first.
PSA has graded Pichu cards as Raichu; German non Base Set cards; cards with fake 1st edition stamps or fake autographs; and use 5+ different labels for the same exact cards. Not to start bashing on PSA, since making a mistake is human nature, nobody is perfect. And overall they’ve still done a pretty good job as a grading company, ngl (although their current backlog is bs they need to fix tbh). But PSA labeling Topsun cards as 1995 is completely off-topic and a useless argument imo.