lol…
the bottom one is witnessed and the top one isnt 
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Is it a coincidence that they look completely different. Maybe cgc made akabane nervous watching him sign
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i am not sure how these are done and have no clue how cgc was “present” for the signing in the first place
but the silver one means it was submitted after and authenticated by jsa… take that for what you will
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Looks like at least 12 beta sets now.
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cgc pop report isnt really accurate coz there are tons of mislabels (althought beta playtest is prolly ok). but the presentation pop reports are def way messed up
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It would make sense for several batches to be photocopied in the 1990s for play testing purposes. I think that’s a reasonable conclusion.
What grinds my gears more than anything is that CGC does not distinguish this on their labels. I would assume that they have the ability to discern originals from photocopies. I hope they didn’t choose to withhold this information so that sellers can offload them as if all are originally developed and not photocopied.
Another point worth discussing is, “Why are high-end collectors selling these at all?” If they were as rare, historically important, and grail-worthy as they were originally peddled to be, wouldn’t you think that folks would keep them for their ultra-high-end collection? I understand that these were a big buy and people need to cover their ass if they were bought with debt, but some of the wealthiest collectors in this space would not need to sell these. Anyway, this thought has been bugging me for a bit and continually makes me raise my eyebrows as more information comes out.
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I know the store that bought one of the sets speculated they could flip for profit. I think most saw this as an “Illustrator Pikachu” opportunity, hoping to earn that early adopters premium
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Yep, that makes sense. There are a lot of speculators in the area right now. I’ve seen several members in this thread alone list (and either sell or later take down) their prototypes within days/weeks of winning them in auction. Money will always be one of many motivating factors behind large purchases.
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i think that last point is exactly correct though they were bought on credit prolly and needed to be dumped pretty quick to recover the funds (and hopefully profit but that prolly didnt happen 
)
perhaps the wealthiest of the wealthy who wouldnt need to do this simply wasnt interested
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On top of the points others have made, my hunch is that it was safer for them to quickly pass more hands away from Akabane/the middlemen given TPC supposedly isn’t happy about them being sold/signed. Every aspect of their distribution seems to have been handled sloppily in the name of making a quick buck and flipping for an additional buck, with the only clear winners being Akabane and the middlemen. Maybe the alternative would’ve been them rotting away in his basement forever and eventually being thrown in the trash, but whatever opportunity there was for these historical pieces to be properly preserved together is gone.
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As others have mentioned, the likely possibility is that people thought they could make a quick flip. Though with the prices crashing further after each wave the selling has not slowed down yet.
The lingering concern I would have is that on the sell side there is knowledge of more supply out there that is not widely known, in this case selling as soon as possible would make sense (even with lowering prices). Pure speculation but I take this possibility into account.
In terms of the actual manufacture of the cards, it seems there is a lot more detail to be established. It does make sense I suppose, there was not a standardized process for making them so there are a lot of variations which have yet to be identified by CGC. As long as everything was created at the time I am ok with things like photocopies (though this might effect valuation? 2nd print, reproduction print of 1st print etc?), if things were created later that is an important detail. In terms of provenance as I understand it at the moment it largely rests on the word/memory of Akabane, I think it is believable but it would perhaps be good if we had corroboration from multiple sources including original documentation.
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I’ve been on a small break from the hobby (around 4-5 months now) and may be behind on a lot of information going around about all of these…. It seems like I have really missed a lot.
But let me get this straight,
We have now potentially this many different sets of prototypes + playtests + presentation cards (based on this information above);
Alpha Prototypes: 11 sets
Alpha Playtests: 12 sets
Beta Playtests: 14 sets
Delta Playtests: 10 sets
Alpha Presentation: 7 sets
Beta Presentation: 4 Sets
For a total of ~58 potential sets of these? And potentially more? And many copies are pristine/gem mint? Despite the fact that many are “playtests”?
And up until 2022, we didn’t see any copies of any of these?
Around 2023, we start seeing only a few copies that graded with CGC and they were grades of like 5 to 7? And some of those copies sold for hundreds of thousands of dollars apparently?
And then all of a sudden in 2024, we now see this many copies/sets all flooding the market now…all at once? And in gem mint/pristine condition?
It just seems like the story/goal posts on these is constantly moving, while the prices continue to crash.
I personally have no skin in the game on these, and also don’t personally own any copies. Nor, do I secretly wish for the downfall of these, as I’d love for them to be legitimate honestly.
However, I can’t remember anything in this hobby ever having this many red flags attached to it and also implicating so many large collectors (which I personally believe have acted in good faith from the information they’ve gotten from Akabane). This really blows the whole Topsun debacle out of the water by 10x-100x imo.
At this point, it seems the only people who have really benefited from the entirety of this situation have been Akabane & his middlemen and they seem to have made millions from this whole ordeal.
Thank God for the E4 platform and for having collectors work so hard together to get to the bottom
of this. I’m always impressed by you all. Thanks in advance for any clarity on this that you are able to give!
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Important to note that supposedly its gem mint condition when taking into account the overall condition of every one of these prototype cards. So they are being compared to each other rather than using a standard grading scale (to take into account flaws that every single one of the cards have). IMO it’s a bit disingenuous to grade them like that, but CGC is gonna do whatever gives CGC the most publicity and makes their high profile clients happy 
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There’s only 10 Alpha Prototype sets currently on CGC’s pop report.
I’ve expressed this before but I’ll say it again, it really is unfortunate that these beautiful pieces of history have been marred by the actions of unscrupulous individuals involved in the process of getting them out into the world. I’ve been outspoken about how cool I think these are from the beginning despite the controversy. I’ll be transparent, I’ve been buying these all the way down and have certainly lost “value” on them. I can’t blame any discerning collector for exercising caution around these items but despite that, I still appreciate them. At the end of the day it boils down to your trust in the middleman who put them in your hands and CGC. I have to say, having worked with steady_collect I’d stick my neck out for that guy any day. He’s a 10/10 human being.
CGC put out an article on them a while back in case anyone missed it. https://www.cgccards.com/news/article/13347/
There’s also this site being put together by MattCollects64
Summarizing All Major Versions
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I’ve seen the beta playtest going for sub 1k this month. I want to get one as it’s a really cool Piece of history but I am a bit spooked.
I think these were in the 3-5k range a few months back.
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So, I’m back to ask a lot more questions about these given a few “play tests” that look like this. If you look at the auto, it very sharply and neatly cuts off. A few of them look like this and I’m wondering why?
I spoke to more than a few people about this (experts on autos for PKMN - two actually, owners, larger accounts, forum mods >.>, and etc…). I only got one explanation for this. The autograph experts could not provide a clear answer on this and felt that this was a concerning issue worth discussion… so here I am.
Here was one explanation for this that could be possible depending on how the sheet layouts are, which we can’t see and don’t have images of at all. Essentially, there were sheets of these “play tests” uncut in 2022 or 2023 or something like that. One explanation involves these being signed on the sheet, cut, and then adhered to the white cardstock sometime recently 2022-24. I don’t have exact dates here.
I don’t know if this is possible given that I don’t have images of the sheet. You might think - well of course its possible - but if the cards don’t have any “trim” between them, then the autograph would transit from one card to another if it was not totally on the single card. This would leave a partial auto on one card (the unfinished part) and the remainder on the other. I’d have to see the sheets to know this.
Since these are just regular printer paper, and ostensibly from 1995/1996, is it possible to photo copy them on a high resolution scanner presently - especially concerning since sheets were still intact recently - provided the only feasible explanation I encountered is true…
More… These are purported to be “play tests” and more than a few of the people I spoke with took issue with the signature theory presented herein since it would make it impossible for the cards to truly be “play tests.” That isn’t proof of forgery or recent production (whatever your flavor is) but it seems disingenuous.
I have a few questions that maybe people can answer here…
-Is there another way that the auto could be like this? BTW I have already considered if it could be wiped off - but wouldn’t there be some sort of residue on the edges of the A4 paper (bleed, stains, or some sort of mess).
-How many of these “signings” occurred? How many did CGC attend and is there photograph evidence of the attendance? Some people have suggested CGC does not attend all of its witnessed signings, but there may be representative clauses whereby a trusted agent attends for them, they may have attended virtually, and other things. I think its best to stick to the facts here and that’s what I’m asking for before anyone accuses CGC of something like that. It is a serious accusation to make without any evidence.
-Does anyone have any images of the sheet. Please no trust me bro comments here. Images or nothing. Don’t want to hear that you saw the sheets. If there is no “trim” on the sheet between cards, then either the other card is out there with the auto blob from the above pic or it was destroyed.
I just want to caveat that I’m not here to stir the pot. I have a lot of questions about these and want to know more. Just trying to understand what we know and what we don’t… If you think I’m wrong about something, I’m not above being wrong. Just need to have a dialogue.
BTW there are more than a few protos like this with the cut off auto. Also I must say that it is a fact that uncut sheets were around recently. This isn’t a point of discussion.
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This is quite the observation. I tip my hat to you as when I see the autograph protos, I usually skip them (because I cant afford them as well 
). Thanks for sharing this information.
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It isn’t my observation and was forwarded to me by someone else - won’t mention names. I don’t dig up Pokemon stuff like this because, generally, this isn’t my hobby, but I am morbidly curious about authentication because I believe cards are cards and that authentication practices from hobby to hobby are universal or transferable from one TCG to another. I was asked to help on this given what I put out on Yugioh Magic & Wizards.
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Here are a couple other examples with the same issue:
I’m in the same boat as @GhezziTCG, I just want to know how this is possible.
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Sorry to disappoint you guys but it’s easy to do with a sharpie. This is how the ink reacts when you have two different surfaces stuck together.
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