VVD’s Videnza is so God-tier. I love it so much (the centerpiece one)
Your point is valid and so is the question. However, about once a year I try to look up the environmental impacts the trading card game industry has had and I’ve only found one paper back in 2013 that MAY have covered the topic. The topic deserves consideration and should likely have it’s own thread - however I imagine that the breakdown is much more complex considering the multiple layers regarding the TCG industry whereas cryptos and NFTs are much easier to understand from an energy-consumption basis and also appear more alarming.
That is all to say that I think there’s a good discussion left to be had regarding your point that should be made in a separate thread, but I don’t want it to serve as an accidental red-herring to distract from my previous question.
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You guys realize crypto is only a small fraction of the internet right. Every meme you post means more demand for the internet which means more data centers, more servers, more electrical draw as the infrastructure spins up. Not to mention all of the hardware that is tossed out every year! Please stop using your phones and computers, this is destructive behavior.
Nice red-herring @primordialaa, but not the question I was asking:
Not a red herring at all:
“According to a recent report from KTH Royal Institute of Technology in Sweden, about 10% of the world’s total electricity consumption is currently used by the Internet. The figure has risen from 8% in 2012 and may reach 20% by 2025. Some may find this appalling, but to me, it’s absolutely fine”
So if you knew that 20% of ALL OF THE WORLDS ELECTRICITY was used for you to have access to the internet would you stop immediately?
Would I stop if I know minting an NFT burned a forest down, of course I would lmao. But I actually know how this works and so I don’t have insane takes on fictional scenarios.
“If you knew that each time you paid with a credit card 3 whales where murdered”
It’s a nonsense take meant to show how extreme the negative externalities are but again list most of these takes come without any sort of data.
So now I can just ask you the direct question, Crypto is something like 0.1% of world energy, the internet is >10% on it’s way to 20%. Why are you not vilifying the internet? Now that you know that will you stop using it?
It’s an easy take for you because you don’t believe crypto has any real value so your response will probably be something along the lines of “but the internet helps so many people!”. Yes… I’m sure 4chan and efour and reddit are adding a tonnnn of value to the world relative to the environmental impact. The same way you believe the internet has intrinsic value people fundamentally believe crypto will shift the fabric of the world, and given the adoption so far and it’s trajectory over the past decade I’d say that’s more substantiated than unsubstantiated at this point.
My issue with all of this is it’s always an abundance of logical fallacies and strawman arguments but turn your question on yourself now and either shut off the internet, or stay here. If you do stay here please stop talking about your environmental superiority or at least come back with some facts. Ty
You assume too much. I’m merely seeing where people lay on the subject in case further research comes out to finalize the environmental impact debate. I find it interesting you claim to “know how this works” when you also claimed in a previous point that the research on the environmental impact hasn’t fully come out.
I know internet usage is a problem. I don’t have high-speed or fios. Saying that MY usage is equivalent to everyone else’s usage is an extreme in itself.
People have done terrible things in the past for a quick buck. People have been ignored, the environment destroyed, and multiple other horrors for the sake of “profit” and the uncaring eye. People would rather jump on a wagon if it means money than actually take the complicated time to find out whether something or not has a heavier impact.
And this is just NFT’s. My bigger issue is still crypto in general. I don’t care that we’re going to greener resources. I do think there’s a future technologically speaking with stuff like crypto, but I want nothing to do with it until I know that it keeps itself in check which it obviously does little now to do.
I’m just trying to see if people are just continuing a selfish state of “me me money me” that ignores a bigger problem or if it’s actually something that people can safely get into without the detriment of a greater risk. Sad to say, NFT’s still feel like they’re on the former scale from everything I’ve read here and researched. Once again, the risk is not worth it.
So forgive me for being skeptical when the world has been fucked by the sake of convenience factoring and the desire for profit.
Edit: In the end, I hope I’m wrong and more people can safely go into this without feeling like they’re setting the world on fire. I’m glad YOU said you’d jump ship if you found out that the impact was detrimental. I’m not willing to jump on that ship yet because I can look past my own wants. I think it’s smart to be cautious with these kinds of things for a LOT of reasons. I wish more people would be willing to take that pre-caution in case they do something heavily damaging. And that goes for all things, not just NFT’s. NFT’s just give me a harder red flag that’s easier to see.
My point is that almost all technology goes through this and it’s exacerbated by globally prevalent things right? There are no small markets anymore it’s a large global market and good technology takes off quickly. I’ve posted resource earlier in this thread and even just last night where you can see the trajectory of this stuff. I’ve talked to people building out farms, and running some of the largest farms in the world about what they are doing and their plan towards renewables or not. The fact of life these days is that the cheapest $/kwh energy in the world these days comes around renewables. Hydro and wind are highly saught after and given how zero-sum and competitive the mining space is needing to get ~3c/kwh or less is becoming mandatory at least in the times when prices hasn’t outstretched hash so significantly.
I don’t mind a hypothetical posit but everyone doing it seems to be acting from a position of knowledge and authority while it’s quite clear very few have taken the time to look into these systems and I know for a fact that I have so from the outside looking in it’s painful to watch, as I assume if you looked into some external community, say a poker community, and saw them arguing how English base set was earlier than Shadowless and how ancient mew is more rare than trophy khan (and saying it with complete authority to each other and others being like “yea that’s right!!”). I absolutely value open discussion but if you’re going to repeat the same arguments that have been had here for 20 pages straight with nothing insightful or new to add other than a “what if” it really doesn’t do much to further the conversation and for those who are uninformed it will end up being detrimental.
I think the environmental impact debate is a fantastic debate to have, I’ve watched it play out for 8+ years now. Nic has some excellent resources on it (https://niccarter.info/). At this point I think it would be reasonable to separate the conversation into 2 threads though.
- Side Collections - NFTs
- The environmental impact of NFTs & The Blockchain
Having it consolidated is messy and doesn’t seem to be working well
In actual NFT news it was quite interesting to see 3AC purchase ‘The Goose’ for $5.4m. I have never been a big fan of ringers but I do think this one is pretty cool, pretty massive price tag to go with it but there are more and more of these sales happening atm
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This is a pretty cool concept / project on the topic of how NFTs could be less harmful:
brokolinetwork.medium.com/nft-forest-play-to-earn-meets-play-to-impact-22af1bc7305a
I’m just so proud of everyone being so environmental friendly in this thread! It’s strange how people care about mother earth oh so much when it fits their narrative.
Look’s like cheese
Serious question - what do you guys think of the space punks?
A new project with 10k punks and it sounds very similar to cryptopunks and they were bought out at 0.06 Eth and launched on 15th August and the floor price is currently 0.35 ETH
Generally pretty bearish punks derivatives but just took a quick look and:
-3k holders on 10k items is reaosnable (penguins 4.4k / 8.8k, BAYC 5.3k / 10k)
most of the pfp projects are heavily driven by the community so vibrancy of the community, memes, activity, are all pretty meaningful. Also how many pfp’s you see actually being changed to them (showing a heavier commitment / attachment). I haven’t seen a single one on twitter yet so not a great sign but I also didnt see more than 1-2 for ON1 and it did fantastic.
Not much to say otherwise, other than whoever minted this is going to be very very happy if this project takes off lol
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I would like to reply, but want to disclose that I haven’t looked much into it but I’ve seen it around on twitter and was just exploring their website for 5-10 minutes rn.
One of the ways that you can assess whether a project is strong is if the team running it truly cares about their community and their reputation/mission. The team members don’t seem to have too large of followings, but it does seem like they have a structure around what they are doing. I would recommend seeing how they interact within their discord. It is interesting that the attributes are algorithmically generated.
On a very subjective level: the art reminds me of a similar street style vain of KAWS but different.
But I hope someone else can give you some quality takes as well 
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Is the environmental impact the actual cgi generation of the jpgs or the mining of ethereum?
Where do you store NFT’s? On a cold wallet? Certainly not on an exchange since technically those aren’t your wallets you’re just using a platforms, right?
In this thread we like to assign the entire history of mining to each individual jpeg minted.
In seriousness though obviously the computer it’s made on, the internet/data centers it’s transferred over, the storage and redundancy of where it’s stored, the mining of the block it’s included in, and anytime anybody views it all has their own environmental footprint. For an nft you can assign maybe a couple Ethereum blocks per project, so call it like 1/X of a block assigned to an individual nft assuming they are flattened to fill the entire block with only the nft and nothing else is in them, but let’s take that completely worst case assumption.
current hash rate of the Ethereum network is 628.10 TH/S
RTX 3090 clocks 125 MH/s and draws 320 watts
This is equivalent to 5,024,000 3090s running for 13 seconds (length of an ethereum block to be mined)
This is equivalent to 1607680000 watts, i.e. 1607680 kilowatts
13 seconds / 1 hour = 0.00361111111 hours
cost of electricity for most miners is 3c roughly, so about $174.16 in electricity to mine an Ethereum block if I didn’t mess up the math anywhere.
a single NFT may be 1/100 or 1/1000th of that so say… $1.74 to $0.174ish?
basically in the worst case I’d say each NFT minted is equivalent to running your desktop anywhere from 1 - 6 hours (@ 1/1000th assignment to the individual NFT).
Google says a desktop being run 8 hours per day uses 600 kWh and emits 175 kg of CO2 per year.
not sure what all of this tells you, but I did these calculations from my phone while my kid was in the bath so I’m sure there are some mistakes in there
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@chrisbalestra Metamask is most common. If you’re store anything of significant value recommend you get a hardware wallet to connect to metamask and access that way (Trezor and Ledger are the most popular)
Thanks a lot guys!
Thank you very much for your advice I’ve been learning about them and find it very interesting!
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