I was told there is more 1st edition of the Neo era cards than unlimited? Normally I wouldn’t care but I’ve heard it like three times in a week? How is that possible when 1st edition is literally supposed to be limited? Can anyone with more knowledge elaborate or explain?
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Supply and demand. Enough 1st was out there and demand for unlimited wasnt high. Unlimited was meant to sort of appeal to everyone and be widely accessible. Thing is, if people are already satisfied with 1st ed, then they dont need to print as much unlimited cause theres not enough demand.
idk if neo unlim is actually rarer to be honest, but my understanding is they are much closer in print run than say 1st/unlim base, jungle, fossil.
Practically speaking, why spend time and money printing unlimited when no one wants it
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Ooh interesting! So the print run between 1st edition and unlimited for Neo sets are very close
Again, I dont know which is more/less per set, but my understanding is they are closer. So I guess around 50/50, but we dont really know. Could be 60/40, 40/60, etc
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This is entirely anecdotal, but I started collecting Neo Unlimited PSA 9s about 2 years ago (CGC 9s recently too), and it’s been very difficult to find exactly what I’m looking for. I normally browse eBay and Fanatics, so I can miss more listings elsewhere, but I usually see Neo 1st edition for sale much more often than Unlimited. I always had this thought in my mind that perhaps Neo Unlimited is “more rare” than the typical WOTC unlimited cards.
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I dont believe this for a minute
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Well I heard it from pokerev in a Neo discovery box opening then a friend of mine said the same thing. Their logic was there are less graded unlimited 10s as opposed to 1st edition. But I was t sure so I asked
If you want to chase Unlimited may I introduce you to Japanese?
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people have often used this as a selling point, dont be fooled into paying more
unlimited is unlimited
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Hey, I’ll always take cheaper. It’s why I collect cgc lol
Unlimited pops (at least at one time) were lower, but that was cause unlimited was worthless until covid. Some may misconstrue that as unlimited being rarer or harder to grade than 1st. I disagree with the first and more or less doubt the second. That may also be what rev and others are talking about.
I think it was rocket unlimited magneton that was like, $10k or something stupid back then. Part of it is low pop, part of it hard to grade wotc cards in general, but lets not kid ourselves that unlimited rocket is rare. Same story with unlimited stuff in neo. Pop may be lower, but dont fool yourself into thinking a premium is warranted due to rarity and rarity alone, especially when the difference in print numbers really isnt as much of a thing
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10 Years ago there was a heavy bias against unlimited WOTC cards for the longest time, People only wanted First Edition. It was also graded less since it didn’t sell well.
A 1st edition Neo Psa 10 holo would be 5x the price of an unlimited (if sales data even existed, the pops were extremely low 10>) It was a common belief back then that certain unlimited Neo sets were rarer than their 1st edition counterpart.
Whether that is true, who knows, I’m getting old and I feel like the collector base hive-mind is losing knowledge opposed to gaining it.
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Hopefully questions like this on Efour card an archive when these questions come up in the future
That makes more sense to be honest
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The actual answer is that Neo 1st Edition print runs weren’t higher (or even similar) to unlimited print runs.
The easy way to see this is by comparing the pops of chase card (aka cards w/ high incentive to grade regardless of whether they’re 1st Ed or unlimited):
1st Edition Neo Gen Lugia:
Unlimited Neo Gen Lugia:
And Neo Destiny Shining Charizard:
A higher proportion of the 1st Edition print run will have been graded. So that means, at a minimum, the Unlimited print run of Neo Genesis was 1.68x higher than 1st Ed. And for Neo Destiny, 5.08x higher. For Neo Gen, much higher than 1.68x because Unlimited Lugia isn’t worth all that much, especially in low grades. For Neo Destiny, probably not that much higher than 5.08x because that card’s worth a lot in any grade.
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Graded population reports do not provide information on set print size. They are more relevant for exclusive promos with known counts, and even then, they can be wildly inaccurate due to extra copies floating around and regrades.
The folks with true print size data would be those working on the production line fulfilling print orders or those writing up the orders. @cataclysm80 do you have any information about Neo print runs and 1ED/Unlimited print sizes?
Anecdotally, I have not seen any indication to suggest that Unlimited was printed less than 1st Edition.
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They do for relative print run sizes. If there are more Unlimited Neo Gen Lugia holos graded than 1st Ed. Neo Gen Lugia holos graded, despite the fact that the pull rates were identical and there’s a significantly greater incentive to grade 1st Ed. versions, then we know for certain (or as certain as we can be) that Unlimited Neo Gen had a higher print run than 1st Edition Neo Gen.
There’s a 0% chance that the proportion of the print run of Unlimited Neo Gen Lugias that has been graded is higher than the proportion of the print run of 1st Ed. Neo Gen Lugias. Not only is the likelihood 0%, but I think it’s actually an extremely safe assumption that the reverse is true–that a higher proportion of the 1st Ed. print run has been graded than Unlimited. And not only higher, but probably significantly higher.
But we don’t even need to make that (extremely safe) assumption to be able to conclude as I did earlier in this thread that Unlimited had a higher print run, because there are already, right now, 1.68x more Unlimited copies that have been graded. So the absolute minimum is a 1.68x higher print run. In all likelihood, significantly higher than 1.68. But 1.68 is the baseline.
Historically, more 1ED copies were graded because they were worth money and UED were not. If you used this same logic then, it would have given the opposite story.
In 2026, there is an incentive to grade seemingly everything made of cardboard, and so the relative rates become a little more stable. And especially so for popular cards that are desirable to grade regardless of the stamp. But this rate still heavily depends on the card(s) chosen, the grading company chosen, and many other factors that we cannot control (e.g., submission behavior, the ungraded population size, the sealed product size, what lays dormant in other countries where grading is in its infancy, whether PSA was grading XYZ card for a shorter period of time [think ‘double holo’ errors], etc.).
The number of assumptions made is too many for me to feel confident in the accuracy of the given rate, but for a brief comparison to suggest that UED was printed more than 1ED, I think it’s suggestive and the only evidence that we have thus far.
As I mentioned above, graded pop reports will not provide [definitive] information on set print size (e.g., how many months something was in print, how many booster boxes were released, how many total cards were printed, etc.). This is the quantitative data that we would need to have complete evidence. I’ve added the word definitive (or “accurate,” “clear,” etc.) to clarify my opinion.
Anyway, this is an interesting topic despite our collective limitations in knowledge. I’m hoping that Tavis has more concrete info.
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Historically, more 1ED copies were graded because they were worth money and UED were not. If you used this same logic then, it would have given the opposite story.
No, my logic then, back when Unlimited pops were lower than 1st Ed., would’ve yielded the conclusion that we don’t know for sure (because of the differing levels of incentives). But now we do know for sure because Unlimited pops have literally eclipsed 1st Ed. pops despite that.
In 2026, there is an incentive to grade seemingly everything made of cardboard, and so the relative rates become a little more stable. And especially so for popular cards that are desirable to grade regardless of the stamp. But this rate still heavily depends on the card(s) chosen, the grading company chosen, and many other factors that we cannot control (e.g., submission behavior, the ungraded population size, the sealed product size, what lays dormant in other countries where grading is in its infancy, whether PSA was grading XYZ card for a shorter period of time [think ‘double holo’ errors], etc.).
My logic relies on four claims, none of which you’ve addressed, even indirectly:
- When a card (Card A) is worth more than an otherwise identical card in terms of age, pull rates, history, etc (Card B), people are more likely to grade Card A then Card B.
- 1st Ed. Neo Gen Lugia is worth more than Unlimited Neo Gen Lugia.
- Unlimited Neo Gen Lugia has a higher population than 1st Ed. Neo Gen Lugia.
- The pull rate of 1st Ed. Neo Gen Lugia was identical to Unlimited Neo Gen Lugia.
I don’t know how any person could dispute any of those claims. They’re all just obviously true. And if they’re all true, then my conclusion is necessarily true.
As I mentioned above, graded pop reports will not provide [definitive] information on set print size (e.g., how many months something was in print, how many booster boxes were released, how many total cards were printed, etc.). This is the quantitative data that we would need to have complete evidence. I’ve added the word definitive (or “accurate,” “clear,” etc.) to clarify my opinion.
Again, I didn’t make a single claim about any of things. I made a claim about relative print run size. I have no clue how many boxes of any set were printed, how many months something was in print, etc. and no one without insider knowledge does. Luckily, I didn’t make any of those claims.
Anyway, this is an interesting topic despite our collective limitations in knowledge. I’m hoping that Tavis has more concrete info.
I’m making an extremely weak claim. I’m not claiming that Unlimited had precisely 5.1523528482492x the print run of 1st Ed. I’m literally just claiming that the print run of Unlimited was >1x the print run of 1st Ed., which is incontrovertibly true.
I’d love to have more info from Tavis (who I deeply admire, coming from MTG). But to make the super vague claim I made (which I thought would be utterly uncontroversial and self-evident), we don’t need further info.
I’m not disagreeing with you that UED was printed more than 1ED. I stated this originally. What I am saying is that the rate that you provided is not going to be accurate with all of the confounding factors that we can’t control for. This is no fault of your own, just limitations on our current knowledge.
As I’ve stated here, it’s definitely suggestive and the only quantitative evidence that we have thus far.
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