Is the term Grail so overused its lost is meaning?

[gardenofthorns]

I think it’s become a really used buzz word, kind of like synergy. I think a lot of people use it more for marketing and just to sound fancy, and that there are people and sites that use it too much. I think with the influx of “investor bros” in the hobby, they are just using whatever words they can to sell what they want to sell. I’m not saying this applies to everyone, but there are a lot of people who dont really understand pokemon, and only see $$$ so they just say words to sound like they know what they are talking about. In my experiences, often times the loudest ones are usually the ones who know the least. So that might be why we see the word “Grail” so much. To me there are grails that I have/want, which are limited to about 2 maybe 3 different things, and while the label isn’t necessary, it does more or less encompass the regard I put towards those certain items.

Overall, I do think that Grail has been overused by certain parts of the hobby, however personally it has not changed how I view the word. I do however, not pay attention when I see the word grail in a listing. Just like how when someone says the word synergy, I stop paying attention and focus on things that matter. Like Phanpy, or Japanese Curry

[eevee]

In todays term “Grail” just seems like another marketing jargon used by people to hype specific cards objectively in the current market. I do think that Grail cards can be both objective and subjective depending on the person. I want to beleive that using “grail” when approaching tcg means that a card is hard to get for the average collector even pushing value aside. Afterall scarcity plays a huge part in a grail card imo. However when we look at it from the approach of what everyone can afford financially then the term “grail” looks a bit different between everyone as well.

[mrbubbles]

The truest of Grails will always be the friends we make along the way!

Cheers!

[Dyl]

I understand the rationale behind the original post, and I welcome discourse about moot topics like this, but it comes across a little pretentious (see the passage below).

@chibicollectables

We came to the conclusion that people overuse the term grail because they don’t have the in-depth knowledge that most of us in this forum have, and confuse a ‘personal’ grail which in that moment in time for themselves wether it be financially or because of there lack of knowledge feels like a grail.

I want people to be happy with and proud of their collection. I want collectors to set and achieve difficult goals. I could not care less if someone calls a card from their collection a grail. There’s really no need to gatekeep “grail status” of cards or collectibles.

[chibicollectables]

I mean in my original post I explain that this isn’t against collectors calling whatever card they want a grail, I understand a card in there eyes may be a grail because of the journey they took to achieve that card.

What I am wanting peoples opinions on is ‘is the term overused’ and why it might be.

Of course a 11 year old collecting Pokemon may be see a celebrations zard in a psa 10 a grail but for everyone else it isn’t. This isn’t about bashing collectors this is discussing why it’s overused and what more time served collectors view as a grail or is this term just not fit for purpose anymore

[haytertcg]

@chibicollectables

We came to the conclusion that people overuse the term grail because they don’t have the in-depth knowledge that most of us in this forum have, and confuse a ‘personal’ grail which in that moment in time for themselves wether it be financially or because of there lack of knowledge feels like a grail.

It’s not the first time you’ve had a condescending view on such a topic.

A “grail” is individual to the collector, and not something that can or should be universally agreed upon. I wouldn’t consider an Art Academy card, or even an Illustrator a grail because i just don’t care for the card. I have no connection or desire for the card, regardless of its scarcity in terms of total number printed, or value that the market is currently sitting at.

At the end of the day, everyone can and SHOULD have their own idea of a grail. It would be boring if we all collected the same thing. I enjoy seeing people excited about finding/buying their “grail” card, regardless if it’s something inherently rare.

[genosha]

Grails are relative. For a Jaguar car collector a 1967 Ford Mustang isn’t a grail, but an E-Type is. And this applies to our hobby to.

For me, a First Edition Charizard Base or Illustrator is not a grail. SNAP! Bulbasaur for sure is.

[chibicollectables]

Yeah think if you actually read my whole post I’m not talking about individual personal grails here, pretty sure I highlighted this. Collect what you want you can call whatever card a ‘personal grail’ doesn’t mean I need to agree with you on that, like you aren’t agreeing with me.

There are still cards that are of grail status. otherwise what’s the point in the history of Pokemon, if we don’t define cards for their importance and the contribution towards the growth of a hobby way before 2021.

[haytertcg]

And if you read mine, you’d see that my opinion is that there is no meaning to grail which isn’t individual/personal.

[pfm]

@gardenofthorns

I think it’s become a really used buzz word, kind of like synergy. I think a lot of people use it more for marketing and just to sound fancy, and that there are people and sites that use it too much.

The word grail is more informative about the person using it than the card they are talking about. It’s basically an in-group signifier

[gardenofthorns]

Ooo that’s really good

[chibicollectables]

I like this response actually something constructive to the discussion.

I suppose you can tell a lot about the person from the context they use the term.

[thatpikachuguy]

I think term grail in Pokémon is massively overused on the selling side, but I think collectors talking about it is more or less okay (except in the case of leveraging that as a bargaining tactic like SMpratte was showing - that seems pretty annoying)

But it’s weird for a seller to asign “grail” status to anything because I feel it is an entirely subjective perception from the buyers standpoint on what is a grail to you.

For me, a grail is not something you can own; because the whole idea of the ‘hunt for the holy grail’ is that it is the be all and end all of treasures that you seek and strive for forever. So with the few things I have called my grail over the years, I stop calling it that after I acquire it. It’s sort of like after you achieve that goal, the “grail” designation has to move onto the next big goal, or you are no longer in the search for the grail.

And lastly, I personally consider difficulty to find a much larger factor than price in what I have thought of as my grails over my time collecting - It’s always been a question of can I find that item to add it my collection rather than can I afford it, so I don’t think something should have to cost a lot to be someone’s grail

[KabutopsMaster]

Since seeing this post, i can’t help but notice just how overused the term grail is.
Every second post uses it

[SolemnStar]

I think this is a great topic. I’ve thought about this myself recently, so we are on the same wavelength.

Yes you are right. Let me lay out my thoughts what is happening

1. People probably don’t know what the origin of “grail” is.
2. People genuinely don’t even know what actual Holy Grail cards in pokemon cards actually are!

The Holy Grail, is the chalice/cup from the arthurian legend is a singular item of insurmountable worth. It is holy. Though we make it look like a chalice in most accounts, the name itself would actually imply something more like a bowl, but that’s getting off into the weeds a bit. Something about it is greater than just the physical object itself, there is history behind it. That is an absolute must for a “grail” item. To seek The Holy Grail the Knights had to go on a quest using all their wit and strength to find it, and show their mettle and worthiness to acquire it. It is not an easy task!

The issue here is that, there are actually quite a high number of objects in pokemon cards across many languages that meet the criteria, and honestly I think they go down in degree gradually. The line isn’t so clear like with other things. For example I like Legend of Zelda. I almost bought an actual Holy Grail item once, and I regret not doing it. It was a lot of money, but I lost my nerve, and I wasn’t exactly financially in the right place. There aren’t many things that fit that criteria. I’d say there are 4 things I can think off the top of my head that are Legend of Zelda holy grail items.

Where this gets dicey is that the kind of person calling their cards a grail is lack of knowledge, they are new, and want to express their excitment at something they bought. You could argue that its a chase card, but even then they muddy that term too.

This is the heart of it “my grail” and “my chase” card. This is the heart of the problem. That isn’t how it works. These are words that have meanings and slapping “my” in front of it doesn’t change that. Just because its not the Pinnacle of a set(chase card) or a very unique and rare card(Grail), doesn’t mean it doesn’t matter to you! Something shouldn’t need to be adorned with a title for you to like it, or to justify you getting it. It cheapens these words and confuses everyone. It often feels self-absorbed when I see it. I’ve never probed anyone on it, also because I don’t even have social media accounts anymore to interact and ask these questions where you are wont to see it. What is wrong with just saying something is your favorite, or even just one of many cards you enjoy?

Most people doing this are simply uniformed, which isn’t a strike against them for not knowing things. I intentionally sought out the most niche knowledge of cards because that is what drives me, but even now I keep learning new things. So its good to share information and enrich people. So I do think there is some confusion that people pick up from each other; seeing the term grail bandied about and think it simply means something it doesn’t.

Okay so in hard terms what makes something such a Holy Grail for pokemon cards in particular?

1. Rarity. extreme rarity that doesn’t arise due normal booster pack odds
2. History. something that has a unique story around it
3. Mystery. information about it being difficult to piece together at first(once we figure it out, that mystery is gone but its part of the quest).
4. Hard to find. Sale or trade of the card doesn’t come around often. The collector owners will cherish it for what it is, making the cards very illiquid even if there are a fair number relatively in the category.

I’ll also blurb here that a chase card means something too. Its the card from a particular set that is the most sought after out of any other card in the set. Its the most people’s favorite card, but its okay if it isn’t your favorite card from the set.

Examples of Grail cards

• Art Academy cards
• University Magikarp
• Cosmos Holo English Fossil cards

There are others you might consider. But these examples should give you an idea which are well agreed upon. (Also ones which don’t[as far as I know] have some questions around their validity or potential fakes or other such controversy.)

/postzilla

[Chovi]

[frisianlunatic]

One mans trash is another mans grail

For example, i know a collector who sees a HGSS base reverse holo psa 10 caterpie as his grail due to extremely bad print quality.

[Ragdajin]

You describe it much stricter then I would but I like it. Well written.

[arrokuda]

I can definitely see both sides of the argument. I’ve always used “grail” to mean something more personal rather than an overarching rare/special card. My personal grail for the longest time was an original (not Celebrations) unlimited English raw Shining Magikarp. Not the rarest card, but a decent chunk of money for me.

However, the usage of it has definitely increased to the point where it is useless in normal conversation. I’ve seen it with other terms in hobbies. Like “DISO,” and “rehome.” It irks because they create a sense of emotionally-charged urgency in the listing that objective terms can do just as well, yet aren’t trying to manipulate the viewer. I’ve tried to cut back on using the term “grail” as a result. (That and I do not have many cards I would consider personal grails that are out of reach anymore, and the ones that I do want are objectively grails in the collecting community.)