One my goals is to save up enough to eventually get the Umbreon Vmax from Evo Skies. The PSA 10 is around $3,500 right now and that will take quite some time to save up toward. So then I figure with the card having a 70% Gem rate, there’s a good shot that if I buy the card raw and send it in, then it would get a 10 and I could save a ton of money.
Also, basically every night I look at cards and I’ve noticed that PSAs recent certs have been severely undergrading cards. I’m talking like no conceivable reason why a card shouldn’t get a 10 and it gets a 9. I can give you prolly a dozen examples of not only pictures, but also posts on this very forum of people getting totally romped by PSA.
That being said, the confidence of the Umbreon having a 70% Gem rate doesn’t really exist right now, so how long until I can trust PSA again?
I’ve seen quite a bit of speculation on this forum as to what might be happening with new hires or people being overworked or them caring more about quantity over quality because they’re grading a million a month, but I don’t see a whole lot of timeline as to when it might get back to normal.
For all you long time collectors, has PSA ever done this before? How long did it take until the graders were regular again?
They have changed their grading standards though. There was a whole stink about them “secretly” changing their standard from 60/40 on the front to 55/45. They said it’s more about eye appeal anyway, but it really seems like they’ve been undergrading a ton of cards recently.
Problem is everyone else also thinks this, especially these days given the popularity of grading. Why would someone be selling a raw Moonbreon unless they decided it’s too risky to grade? If you’re grading yourself then you’re getting into risk/reward and gambling territory since the price of a 9 will surely be less than the price of a raw card plus grading fees. At least when you buy a 10 then you know what you’re getting.
PSA claims nothing was changed, and they have an argument for that. The stated grading standards have never changed. What you’re talking about is the application and consistency of those standards, which is debatable. I am personally of the belief that the introduction of automated centering measurements cut down on some of the human error on centering measurement, leading to the perception of stricter grading. However, I also think the automated centering measurements might be messing up on some cards.
As someone who has graded with PSA for over a decade, grading definitely feels more inconsistent now. I cannot say it is harsher across the board in my experience. Frankly if it was harsher that would be better as I could learn the “new standards” and adjust my submissions accordingly. I see an increase in arbitrarily low grades but also a lack of within-grade consistency. Clean but slightly off-center cards will get 10s but then cards with the same or better centering and equivalent condition will get 8s or 9s. Do what you will with this information, but I think you might just be better off buying an already graded copy.
I guess I’m of the thought that not everyone cares about grading. Because someone could know they have a clean copy but they don’t wanna deal with the risk of sending it or whatever, so then they’ll sell it to someone who’s looking for a clean copy, then just buy another one.
Yeah but…it costs so much more
Yes! Maybe that’s what I’m thinking/feeling. I feel like i used to be able to clearly know what would get a 10, a 9, maybe an 8, but now it seems all over the place.
But has something like this ever happened before? Where there’s been a season of large inconsistency?
The PSA “standard” has always been loose and highly subjective and variable depending on grader. To me, whether or not the “standards have changed” is not a productive debate because it gives too much technical weight to what has always been a vibes-based process.
That aside, whatever soup-du-jour controversy is happening in the moment almost never means anything in the long term for any of these grading companies. The consumer has a short memory and frankly only cares about which piece of plastic translates into the most money.
If the goal is to buy a moonbreon 10 and you care about real condition, then just take the PSA grade as a simple opinion and confirm for yourself if you think the grade holds up. That’s probably the strategy most experienced collectors would employ. If you can’t tell from online images then there are plenty of copies of these cards that show up all the time at cardshows
Yeah, I guess you’re right. I think I’m more thinking of me being able to feel the vibes they’re feeling for the grade, and now I’m feeling like a total barnacle head
I agree! That’s why I’ve started collecting 9s instead of just doing 10s. Plenty of strong 9s out there to be had
That’s true, someone could not care about grading and want to sell without it. In today’s money-obsessed marketplace I think it is very rare to find someone who wants to sell a card without maximizing their value. Even if you do find someone like this, you’ll probably be competing with other people who want to grade the card as well. A raw card that looks like a strong grading candidate will fetch a premium.
I definitely understand what you’re saying with the inconsistency and I feel it too. There have been people arguing that PSA is “grading harsher” since like 2019. The narrative swells with every boom for obvious reasons. However, there feels like more merit to the complaints of inconsistency now. I don’t know if it’s a transient thing or what. As pfm mentioned grading has always been based on vibes. The best answer is that if you don’t like the vibes, adjust your approach.
I’m not saying they have it all figured out, but I guess for the past couple years I’ve been sending stuff in it didn’t start to get weird until very recently. And because I haven’t been in the community for as long as some of the people on here, I didn’t know if this type of inconsistency happens every once in a while.
That’s what brought this up though, because I’ve seen stuff about the whole ‘BuY tHE NeW aND beTtER CeRt’ craze, and how’s it’s all the same, but there’s never been a real answer as to when large inconsistencies start to level out again.
How many cards have you graded? I only ask because gem rate isn’t everything. Umbreon Vmax is one of the most ‘hyper optimized’ cards I can think of. Meaning everyone and their mom wants a gradable copy. Also meaning, if it hasn’t already been graded, chances are its not a 10 candidate. Of course there are exceptions but it takes some experience to find those exceptions and a dash of luck.
I’m by no means an authority on grading but I grade enough to where I don’t have many surprises. I agree that PSA has been harsh on some cards. In my experience it’s been limited to vintage cards. Modern cards have been par for the course and I haven’t seen a noticeable difference in standards.
Best of luck on your quest. Sometimes it just takes time
As someone who has graded a lot of modern over the last year or so, I unfortunately have to counter this and say that it has not been exempt. It started getting bad about the same time that PSA got super backed up around September.
Anyways, back to the subject. I think others have provided great advice. 10 candidate copies of high end cards do become available, but they are snapped up really quickly (like within minutes of being posted), so to get them you need to be very lucky.
My advice would be to wait out grading unless you have to send things in or have a lot of experience. There is no way to know when things will start to smooth out, but a good sign would be turnaround times decreasing again.
PSA has never formally changed their grading scale outside of the change to centering requirement for 10’s. That said, I’ve made it very clear in recent posts about how much I am at odds with PSA’s current grading output, business practices, and overall lack of quality service.
In my opinion, I would hold off on grading with PSA until further notice, be it a statement they make for clarity’s sake, or turnaround times/prices decrease, which would imply they’re not as backed up. I couldn’t fathom a guess at when that would be though. For now, I’m taking my business elsewhere.
FWIW, everything you’ve noticed has also been noticed by many of us here, and is starting to be noticed by the community at large as well. Lots of frustration justifiably being directed at them recently.
Interesting. Are you referring to submissions post September 2025? If so my last submission with modern was in July 2025 so I’d default to you on this one.
Have they become more strict on a certain parameter or are they just outright mis-grading them?
I think everyone agrees there is a difference, its just trying to define that difference. One of the most believable theories is vintage cards are being graded with modern card standards. This wasn’t as much of a thing years ago due to less modern volume and lower print quality. I think this even affects modern itself, as the graders job is to look for damage, and when cards are printed so well, they overcorrect. This was common with japanese new back cards. Some cards would get hit with the 9 tax. This happened when you submitted too many of the same card, one would eventually receive an underserved 9. You could regraded many of those 9’s into 10s.
The other aspect is PSA is more aware of value. I still believe this doesn’t mean lower certs are inherently wrong, just that they are more aware with newer submissions. I pull cards out from inventory all the time from every era that are their true grade.
