Glossy Test Prints?

First and foremost, some pics and videos for reference:

Glossy Nidoran Front/Back

Sheen Comparison between a normal 1st Edition German Nidoran, the glossy Jigglypuff promo and the (very) glossy Nidoran.

Light Test between a normal Nidoran(top) and the glossy Nidoran(bottom).

Rosette Comparison between normal Nidoran(front) and glossy nidoran(back).

Rosette Comparison 2 between the glossy Jigglypuff(front) and glossy Nidoran(back).

Rosette Comparison 3 between the glossy Nidoran(front) and a Blastoise test print(back).

Side Core Views of the normal Nidoran, glossy Jigglypuff and glossy Nidoran.

Copyright Comparison between a glossy Potion(top), a glossy Nidoran(middle) and a normal Nidoran(bottom). Note the Potion says 1999-2000 while the Nidoran just says 1999.

Black Light test front and back. Normal Nidoran and glossy Jigglypuff on the left, glossy Nidoran and glossy Potion on the right.

Details:

  • The Nidoran is about 1mm taller and wider than a normal card and has some slightly mishapen corners. The Potion is the exact same size as a normal card. As far as I know the rest of the cards are a mix of “rough” and “perfect” cuts.

  • There is no black/blue core. I initially thought that it was made entirely of some plastic material but there does appear to be a layer of paper in the middle.

  • These cards come in several different languages including German, Spanish, Italian. NONE of these cards are in English.

  • To my knowledge these are mostly unique, with the exception of some Energy cards - I’ve seen multiples of Fighting energy.

Let me start by saying I’ve spent the last year trying to figure out what these are. I’ve done some research and talked to several ex-WotC employees who were personally involved in production, three typesetters, two CEO’s of WotC as well as several misprint/oddity collectors who have been looking at odd things and spotting counterfeits for over a decade.

This isn’t some “Is this 6000HP Charizard real?” post.

This post is more along the lines of “I’ve spent months trying to figure out what these are with the help of several 10+ year misprint/oddity experts and we don’t know WTF we’re looking at” kind of post.

The story thus far:

I purchased this card from one of a few vendors who specializes in odd things like misprints and rarities like god books, test prints, proofing pages, etc. He’s been buying and selling odd things and high end cards for 20+ years and his store is only 2.5 hours from the WotC HQ in Seattle/Renton. Every now and then an ex-employee who still resides in the area sell him things, which he unloads into the misprint community. A while ago he bought a stack of these glossy cards from one of the ex-typsetters of WotC, who picked them up off of a “free stuff” table outside of R&D in '03 or '04. I’ve personally spoken to each of them while intentionally leaving out details to see if their stories matched up, and they did.

A “free stuff” table sounds like a suspiciously convenient place to pick up something like a test print but after talking to a trusted source about this, he confirmed that the free stuff table did in fact exist. He also stated that it wasn’t rare for people to end up taking things home instead of trashing them once they weren’t being used for anything anymore. They just weren’t allowed to sell things that were used in development/production while they were still employed by WotC.

I asked him if he knew anything about them. He said that he didn’t personally have anything to do with them but the time frame meant that they must’ve been printed shortly after the Pokemon contract went to WotC. He was told that"they are play test cards that were found to be more expensive than just replacing damaged paper cards", which suggests that perhaps WotC was dabbling with different materials or finishes for the newly acquired game. I asked if he knew anyone else who might know anything about them, which lead me to an earlier typesetter.

I showed typesetter B the images of the card and they said that they didn’t have anything to do with the card either
but they did mention that the layout, font, spacing and separate black text layer seem to be accurate to WotC at the time. Their guess was that these cards are prototypes for promotional cards, like the glossy Jigglypuff.

The next and final typesetter I talked to said the cards looked like something that came out of WotC but they also didn’t have any hand in making them. They had heard rumors that R&D wanted faster access to real cards for playtesting and that they might have outsourced a small batch of cards to a local print shop, which might be why the rosette pattern doesn’t match anything else that was being printed at the time. This is an interesting but strange guess because if they wanted to use the cards for playtesting it would make more sense to print them in English.

I talked to someone who handled the actual printing of some Magic: the Gathering cards and they said that there’s a small chance that it could be some amalgamation of a match print/Fuji proof sheet. These types of proofs are printed on several layers of transparency against a white background but aren’t adhered together. They said that it would be possible for someone to utilize both sides of a Fuji proof, glue everything together and then cut it out as a card but it would be extremely thick and unnecessary to do for any reason. Of the cards I’ve personally handled, they aren’t much thicker than a normal card.

I also asked Vince Calouri but he said he didn’t know anything about them. The last big response I got was from Skaff Elias; I mentioned the previous responses I had gotten from the typesetters and this was his reply:

So that’s where I’m at right now - I’ve been waiting for a response from Rick Arons for the past few weeks to see if the man himself knows anything about them but I haven’t heard anything back yet.

The obvious answer to all this fuss is that “they’re counterfeit”. Believe me, that was my immediate thought when I first saw these. But the deeper I followed the breadcrumbs through the history of WotC, the more interesting the stories and theories got. After all, if counterfeit cards were seized by WotC they would have been destroyed instead of displayed on a table for anyone to come and introduce back into circulation. Even Elias was doubtful that these could be fakes:

Everything considered, I still have no concrete idea what these are any neither does anybody else - official or expert. Admittedly I’m still a novice in regards to understanding the print/production process at WotC but thankfully through the collective knowledge of my peers and acquaintances, we are getting a better idea of what could or couldn’t be the logical explanation of what these are, where they ultimately came from and why they exist.

If anybody has any more information or leads on this type of thing please feel free to contact me. Most of my resources are from the Magic: the Gathering side of WotC and it seems like those who worked on Pokemon are either still working there(and are hard to pry answers out of) or are impossible to find or contact.

3 Likes

I got an idea. Send them to PSA. Lol

They’re laminated. You can literally see it hanging off the edges.

What good will this do? Obviously they will not authenticate it. PSA only authenticates officially released and documented cards. They will not and should not put something like this in a slab. That doesn’t mean it’s fake or not printed by a WOTC employee.

It’s not a regular card that has been laminated by someone, otherwise the border would not have a rosette pattern. The rosette pattern indicates that the border on the glossy cards was printed by the same 3-layer cyan-magenta-yellow process as the rest of the card. The border on a regular card is from a solid layer of yellow ink that is added on the top of the card. Similarly, the black text is added as a solid layer which is why it doesn’t have a rosette pattern on a regular card (but often fakes do). Note that there is no rosette pattern for the text in the glossy card which is at least evidence that it’s not a cheap fake.

I’m willing to believe that these could be real in the sense they were printed by WOTC for some esoteric purpose. Obviously they are not “”“real”“” in the sense that either WOTC or TPCI will make a public statement saying that they are real. Honestly, anyone who is only interested in 100% verifiable proof that these are “”“real”“” should just click away from this thread because you’re not going to get that proof. Otherwise this thread will end up as unproductive as the blastoise thread.

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That’s some ugly stuff. Pass!

BTW, exactly who were the two wotc CEO’s you talked to about these and what did they say? I will speak to them personally.

Peter Adkison and Vince Caluori.

Vince’s response was very brief:

Peter’s response was:

My assumption was that they were probably far away from any playtesting or brief experimental processes in regards to Pokemon but Peter has also stated in several interviews that his knowledge of the game is spotty. Which is kind of a given when we’re trying to recall details about 80 odd cards that were produced 20 years ago.

Bill Rose and Mark Elliot are other big names that I’ve been told to try and contact but so far no luck.

You spoke to Peter and Vince about this card? Would they remember?

I forgot to mention what they said in my original comment, it should be updated now.

But yea, both have said that they have no idea what they are. Vince was the one who name-dropped Rick Arons.

I think everything you said is definitely valid. I was joking in both my comments.

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First of all welcome to the forum, @exhumedthallid . Just like with the recent thread of the Prototype Blastoise, I doubt anyone can give any definitive answers tbh.

But, I do want to thank you for your research and entire post. I actually have one of these cards myself (an Italian Base Set Pikachu). When I bought it the seller also stated it was a test print, but unfortunately he barely had any information
 Here are some relevant parts of the PMs he send me at the time:

When I received it I was also quite skeptical of it being a real card (and I still am tbh). Apart from it being glossy, the colors and bolder font on the entire card are quite different. And when doing the light test it let’s through a lot more light than a real card. I’m still not sure what to think of it tbh, although I’m happy someone has investigated these cards, and I hope more information could be dig up. I personally deemed this card as a scam after I bought it, although since it being a test print was still somewhat plausible, it’s still in my collection.

Anyway, here some pictures of the glossy Italian 1st edition Pikachu I have (on the right), next to a regular non-Glossy version (on the left). I’ve also included some pictures taken through my 45x mini microscope to see the Rosetta pattern, as well as the light test (again glossy on the right and regular on the left).




Note that this last picture was taken at the same position and with the same light. My camera makes the glossy one darker because it detects a lot more light shining through the card
 Not sure how to disable that on my camera so it would be a better comparison, but you can see the ‘PokĂ©mon’ and PokĂ©ball of the back are a lot more clearer on the Glossy print than the regular non-glossy version with the same flashlight, angle, and distance of the flashlight to the card.

PS: I hate Autumn/Winter
 Too dang dark to take proper pictures with my crappy camera
 :unamused: :sweat:

The Potion stating ©1999-2000 is correct, since it’s an Italian card. Italian, Dutch, Chinese, and Korean Base Set cards will always have the ©1999-2000 copyright date, and German, French, and Portuguese will always have ©1999 (English and Spanish are available with both ©1999 and ©1999-2000). Some more information in this post I’ve made, to explain how to differentiate the foreign Energy cards for the Base Set based on the Energy translation and copyright date.

Greetz,
Quuador

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When I first saw them I thought the exact same thing until I reached out to Chel and did some research into other seemingly authentic items he’s introduced into the community. I also have a Portuguese square-cut foil Island that I believe came from him, which is also appears to be a test print or material experiment and has some slight differences when compared to a normal foil Island of the same set and language but, again, nobody has much info on it.

Thank you for the chart explaining the differences between the foreign languages. The different copyright dates and differences in card sizes lead me to believe there are at least two separate print runs of these cards. I’m in the middle of moving into a new house but I will compare patterns and characteristics once I dig my equipment out again.