“For the community” is a death sentence for businesses. I did a call with a LGS owner who recently had to close shop. A big part was listening to the complaints of the “community” about modern pricing, so they lowered their prices to appease the complaints. Now as most people know, many sets are below distributor pricing, so small stores are screwed. However if this person would have captured the actual market value on more popular sets, they would still be afloat.
Anyway I just felt bad for this business and thought it would be a good unpopular opinion topic, as its one of many who listened to complaints from people who don’t care, and just want to save money on cardboard, regardless of how it affects the “community”.
I think there is a larger point here about community in general. This might be a heavily North American perspective but with the internet, I think it affects everyone.
My opinion is that the way we structure our social iterations has obliterated any meaningful idea of what community is. To break it down simply, a meaningful community has
constant exposure between members
a level of trust and reliability between members and
members having mostly aligned interests and goals
The way we structure our lives is actively counter to all these points. The goal we are sold is to move away to some mostly remote piece of land that is separated from everyone else. Even in my condo building, the same vibe persists- I’ve been there for 2 years and don’t know the name of a single neighbour. Internet spaces are similar, since we all live in our own curated feeds from large, generic platforms. This fuels a level of distrust because we don’t know the people around us and we default to distrust of the unknown. We are also intentionally being agitated by social media algorithms to outrage over anyone that fails to meet a purity test that puts them in a particular polarized “community”. The fractal fracturing of societal groups makes it extremely hard to accomplish anything that will benefit everyone because everyone is out for mostly themselves and refuses to make any kind of compromise for the greater good.
Above is my opinion, but if you agree with the overall premise that there is a loss of any meaningful idea of community, then I think it makes sense why doing something “for the community” is a death sentence. Because the “community” in question is a loose network of individuals without any significant ties.
A meaningful community would not ask to buy below Walmart prices, they would go out of their way to pay a few extra dollars above Walmart prices. Because they recognize the value of the LGS brings to them and their goal would be aligned with the survival of the LGS. And it cuts the other way too, an LGS owner typically isn’t opening up a store to “serve the community”, they are serving their bottom line. Obviously there will be exceptions and it’s not bad to make money but it’s pretty disingenuous to say your goal is to serve your community or whatever.
Anyway, the main point I’m making here is that we have this outdated concept of what “community” is and it’s being applied to very large networks of people with very loose ties. Effectively the opposite of what people think they mean when they say community. “For the community” sounds so warm and friendly but what is really being said is “for the network” which is probably a better translation of what is actually being implied. The network does not care whether your business survives, you are only as useful as your benefit to the overall network.
I agree, the term is misused and is just a means to an end. MSRP is a good example. MSRP is only brought up when a set is popular and more valuable. No one is complaining right now paying below MSRP for all these new sets.
Basically the slogans “for the community”, or “think about the children” mainly appear when someone isn’t getting what they want.
I agree with some of your sentiment and some of @pfm’s response. I feel bad for this LGS. Mostly because seemed to feel a need to sacrifice their business for “community”. I agree that at least here in North America there is a general collapsing of the ties that create community. It is a growing problem and has been growing for decades. The pandemic only highlighted the issue.
I’m an optimist. Its easy for me. I am in a demographic that gives me privilege. By that I mean I have funds to live comfortably in a nice place and experience little discrimination. I like to believe that true community still exists in small pockets. For example I live in a place that when I go to the local grocery store I know people and they know me. Folks say hello, make eye contact and smile even to those they don’t know. Help each other out during storms. Keep an eye out for those that may need help in the neighborhood. Most of the local businesses are more expensive than Amazon, yet people choose to shop local. Maybe not for everything , but for enough to keep the local shops running. Yes it’s like living in Pallet town. Not a real place. Yet it is real and I play an active role in making it what it is. Since this is about conversation, I think part of the conversation should be about personal responsibility. How do we be different? How do we create community in our own lives. After all it is the only thing we have control over.
It annoys me when people give in to the “community” on stuff like this. The community doesn’t run the business. To me doing stuff for the “community” is hosting events, having enough tables and seating for people to hang out, making sure the bathroom is clean. That is how you take care of a community, not try to compete with online stores with lower overhead costs. People are too greedy these days and don’t know how to treat local businesses anymore.
Its annoying how often I see discussion about being “screwed over” by LGS pricing. Its gotten so bad that people will make posts/comments seemingly as a way to seek some sort of sympathy in disliking an LGS for simply…being an LGS. The amount of hate towards a store selling an in demand set for $7+ a pack is crazy. You are spot on in people only complaining when things are “too expensive”. No one is freaking out at an LGS charging what they can to offload the hoards of SV Base or Paldea Evolved, but as the store moves above $4 for an Evolving Skies or 151, they are crucified.
Just the other day I had an online interaction where someone (who is new to the hobby for the record) was debating on returning an etb with all the pulls as they didn’t get anything of good, “investible” value. I was so taken aback by it. The person didn’t appear malicious, but just the idea was pretty staggering. There was no care for the product, the cards, the pulls, nothing. I can only imagine LGS have to deal with it constantly since Pokemon is actually worth something these days and it gets plastered all over the internet.
I also recall a post on reddit where an individual bought some singles, asked if they got a good deal on reddit (to which redditors said no). After this, the person went back to the lgs to return the cards. To my surprise, the LGS actually agreed to this. Not to my surprise, the person was banned from that LGS after.
There are more stories, many of which come from reddit, but alas, this is not there.
This subject reminds me of the local grocery store where my grandmother lives. It lies in what used to be the epicenter of a town. One of the few left that are family owned, it’s very helpful to the locals as it’s the only shop for miles, and of course they go the extra mile. Things are often out of stock, the fruit is often bad and they just generally struggle.
There is a bridge that separates this shop from many of its customers. If this bridge should be closed down for whatever reason, you’d have to drive around to get there, about 20 km or so. 13 years ago they did exactly that. Not only repairs but reinforcements and restructuring, they pretty much took the damn thing apart over a period of 3 years. Made it narrower but raised the maximum tonnage.
Everyone was sure this shop would go under. Just the final straw, right? It outlived the bank and the retirement home by a good 25 years. But for months there were stories in the local paper of people driving not only the 20 km but trekking from outside the municipality just to shop at this store. Many people continued to take the trip after the bridge reopened, knowing that these people were surely still hurting bad.
I love this! It what I mean when I refer to taking responsibility for community. I get the world is in a pretty tough spot right now, but when people make the conscious effort to BE the community not wait for someone else it is a wonderful thing.
I’ll add one simple point that I think was addressed indirectly already, but the idea of “community” is about reciprocation. Often, the masses expect businesses, institutions, and influential figures to be the sole-sacrificers for the betterment of the community, simply because they are in a better position (financially or otherwise to do so). However, the masses must also be willing to make small sacrifices to support the businesses, institutions, and influential figures that they perceive as of value. This type of mutual support creates supportive environments for everyone, particularly in times of hardship. Moreover, it contributes to a meaningful sense of belonging and interdependence . . . both of which are diminishing in society. The statistics on depression, social isolation, empathy for others, and anxiety are staggering.
@pfm You nailed it. When FB was just blooming, we discussed this at length in phil classes. Everything on the internet vies and fights for our attention, and “content creators” work to serve that same purpose by the brands that pay them. I’m sure that it’s all well-developed capitalist countries and societies where if we are not reflective on our use of the internet, users’ actions are influenced by it. It’s interesting to see how it has come to fruition… unfortunately. But not entirely. I hope, and think there’s hope to reverse some of this and re-discover true community again.
@PokemonClassics Some philosophers have described community, identity, and concept as a network of things, interwoven and connected to form a whole. Bruno Latour comes to mind here, but the point translated to our topic, is that what makes a community is the regularity and magnitude of the various connections and, I think, “reciprocation” as you say. I would also say reinforcement of those relationships, to create stronger connection. As a community is very large, more dispersed, or more anonymous (social media/forums ), the general expected effect of connection, familiarity, and reciprocity is lost. “We’re all in this together” becomes “I’m in it for myself.”
I find it interesting that I’ve also come full circle, in that I began discussing this phenomenon in phil class in undergrad, shelved it, and now after grad and starting in my new GRC career, I’m having to help impart this view to individuals within organizations to try to change their thinking and M.O. But this is also why I think there’s hope to bring back community and that sense of “belonging and interdependence” and personal worth through contribution.
As for my local tcg community, I’m happy to say my LGS does not offer discounts like this, and they’ve managed to weather changes for nearly 30 years. (not one of the biggest ones, but certainly more stable and flexible over time.
What is best for the network often results from the node (the individual) optimizing for personal gain. Take this (former) LGS owner for example. If he had served his interests first by keeping the store profitable, it would have — at least in the short-term given current demand — stayed in business, thus serving the network. Since he listened to the network and optimized for its perceived best-outcomes, he no longer has a business that no longer serves the network.
There are so many times in life where ‘putting your oxygen mask on first before helping others’ is an apt metaphor and this circumstance is no different IMO.
I agree with a caveat. Yes, a self-interested node can benefit the network. The principle behind capitalism itself is that self-interested actions can create value for everyone. But it’s also how cancer works. A single self-interested node can take down the whole network.
It comes down to the third point about community I raised above “members having mostly aligned interests and goals”. It’s in the interest of the child that the parent stay consious and live while putting on the child’s oxygen mask. It’s in the interest of both the buyer and seller that a LGS stays alive.
You also need some kind of incentive system or rules in place to moderate the level of self-interest. The so-called invisible hand of the market keeps self-interested sellers from charging arbitrarily high prices for their boxes and the consequences/risk of theft prevent self-interested buyers from just taking stuff for free.
So I’m not against acting in self-interest, as long as it’s somehow moderated and also exists in a system where actions of self-interest generate net positive value.
I guess my main point isn’t that self-interest is bad, but that a network where people interact exclusively on a self-interested basis isn’t a “community”. In a real community, people take sometimes agree to small Ls in order to create larger Ws. Like agreeing to pay a bit more to your LGS. That could be the difference between the LGS surviving and thriving. Generally speaking, I would say such a network has a lot more resilience built into it.
In person stores should not be selling for more than TCGPlayer and expect anyone with a phone to “not complain.” That doesn’t mean they have to reduce prices and go out of business, that’s just foolish.
The problem is Tcgplayer doesn’t have one price for cards. Its one thing if a store is selling way beyond market for a common card, but a customer expecting to price match everything to the lowest tcgplayer option are as low value as the price they are seaking.
If you dont wanna have a budget above the lowest price you aint gon get nothing, people who sell the cards gotta buy em somewhere, and they gotta make a profit. Lowering Prices “For the community” Is lowering prices for people who dont see you as a person, rather as an obstacle. If you lower prices for the community, make sure people you sell to actually think of you as a person, and part of the community, and remember that you still need to make a profit.
There’s value in not needing the card shipped, being able to assess the condition right in front of you, overhead cost of renting and heating/ac-ing the building you are standing in comfortably.
If this is truly your stance, you are just requesting that all LGS turn to exclusively online stores. If that’s how you feel, why shop at LGS In the first place?
There’s definitely value to seeing the card you’re buying in person at a shop. The problem with LCS pricing being significantly 10-20%+ higher than TCG low is that for me to even know that’s happening, I’m already on TCGPlayer on my phone, at the page of the card I’m looking at. I could just buy it right there if the store won’t come down any.
Yes stores have to source product from somewhere. That somewhere should be wholesale pricing from distribution or buying customer trade ins/collections for 60-80% of market. A store offering 60% market cash and 80% market store credit would be pretty generous imo.
The particulars of how a store manages their overhead and pays rent etc are not my problem as a customer. Stores only exist to make money, and it’s not my job a consumer to argue for them why their prices should be higher than market. A store would be wise to try and provide other reasons for patrons to visit their establishment beyond rock bottom prices, since as has been pointed out, it will be very difficult for them to compete with global online lowest price.
Profiting off pokemon is a sell out either way you look at it. It was created for kids to collect and trade and play against eachother, not to flip cards from 4 dollar packs for hundreds of dollars. Adults ruined it with greed just like most other things
Adults who like pokemon ruined it by being greedy over their favorite monsters? Dude. ADULTS didnt ruin it, its those people who buy just to make money. If i buy a pack, take the cards i want, and sell the rest, am i ruining the cards? No! Im making money off the cards i dont want, so i can buy more cards.
Edit:
Sorry if i sounded a bit rude to yall, if i did it wasnt intentional
I hope, and think there’s hope to reverse some of this and re-discover true community again.
), the general expected effect of connection, familiarity, and reciprocity is lost. “We’re all in this together” becomes “I’m in it for myself.”