Extra Battle Day Lillie sale ignites uproar on Twitter

In the past 24 hours, I ran across a tweet of an individual by the name of Akira; who had the opportunity to get his Extra Battle Day Lillie signed and personalized by Saito. In his original tweet, Akira mentions he would “treasure it for the the rest of his life” only to flip it to a store approx two months later, with the store selling it for an astronomical price. Twitter went nuts, and Akira has since deactivated and/or deleted his Twitter.

It’s the sellers choice and choice alone when it comes to parting with any of their collection, and yet it still bothered a lot of people.

I’m all for people flipping their cards, even autographs, but publicly posting “this will stay with me forever” selling it super fast, then having the store and seller hide the cert like that was going to stop the community from finding out was just asking to get made fun of. Especially how coveted this card is alone without the auto.

I personally think that card will never sell at that price.




Thoughts?

5 Likes

I take it he doesn’t like that it was sold, and meant to imply that it’s not his property, but the seller. Idk if he’s trying to convey he’s going to get in trouble with Creatures?

2 Likes

Was this not signed at an official event?

I gather this was a special one of one. And now the repercussions and negativity this brings him makes him that much more reluctant to do any future signings. And why I also think signings will cease to exist one day.

I wouldn’t buy it for any price. Cursed item.

3 Likes

I think this sale and subsequent response encapsulates a lot of the issues with the current state of the signature market. And I don’t really think there’s a “right answer” to everything, but I’d like to lay out at least what I see as some of the problems that generate this kind of thing.

First and foremost, Pokemon makes signings very challenging. Artists do not have the leeway to sign when and where they want, and Pokemon places restrictions on how they can sign, what they can sign, and to whom they can sign.

Second, effectively all of the artists are Japanese, which has a much different culture when it comes to profiting. In America, it’s a much more cutthroat capitalistic culture where we understand (and even commend) people for making money at the sacrifice of morals and principles. Not the case in Japan. They really do not like it when, in their view, they have provided a personal keepsake (signature) and it gets sold.

Third, there’s a comparatively large amount of shitty behavior within the signature space. It’s a minority, but a vocal minority. You only need one person out of a thousand to chase after Arita on the way back to his hotel and it ruins the event. Add that to the people wiping personalizations and selling them, doing “to charizard,” cutting in line, etc etc.

I think this contributes to a sense of precarity for signature collectors, where it feels like these events could very quickly be shut down forever if one more thing goes wrong. Ironically, if signature events do get shut down, it will only make the market and the shitty behavior more prevalent. So when something like this happens, there’s a very fierce backlash against the seller for contributing to the negative environment. We don’t know the seller’s reason for selling, maybe they had a sudden expense or emergency. Maybe they just didn’t want the card anymore. Maybe they’re a dirty flipper and their objective was always to sell and they lied from the beginning to get the card.

I understand the backlash, even if I don’t think all of it is warranted. After all, it is the seller’s property to do with it what they wish. The major problem is that signatures are so limited now (mostly due to the actions of TPCi) that it generates these problems. And we’ll keep having them as long as the market is as constrained as it is. Constantly trying to turn something that’s considered valuable into an unsellable asset is a losing battle, and I wish Pokemon would change. But since they’re not likely to, I absolutely come down on the moralizing side of pressuring people into “tru collector behavior” if it means we get to keep signature events.

10 Likes

Right if it’s an official event he shouldn’t get in trouble but it might make him more reluctant to do signings going forward to see what people are doing with his sigs

1 Like

Sheesh.

Every time I see a negative situation in the autograph space, I get even more disinterested and worried for its future in Pokemon.

3 Likes

No, he isn’t saying anything about his relationship with Creatures. Just that this kind of situation makes him not want to do public appearances. I guess due to the value that is assigned to his signature.

1 Like

The only solution is for TPCi to mass release the card in a promo box lol.

There is an easy solution: Higher signing price + doing multiple signings a year will lower the second hand value. But most artists are overly purist about charging more money. Outside of the cultural difference, most of these artists are completely unaware of the second hand market. I know multiple artists who took convincing to increase their price from $10 to $20. Meanwhile their autographs were being flipped on site for 20x.

10 Likes

Just flood the market with signatures similar to how Pokemon did to combat scalping. They purchased millennium print group and printed the SDC and the charizard UPC to the ground.

They should do the same here and remove restrictions on artist signing. Let’s flood the market with signatures.

5 Likes

Individual Japanese artists rights will never be allowed to be become bigger than the product that they are a part of. They’ll get SMAP’ed the minute that starts happening lol. The inevitable outcome here is pretty obvious if you know anything about Japanese media. In the future, they’ll be placed under ever stricter rules for signings if they want to keep their employment, If the artist doesn’t like that then they will have to severe their ties with that organisation.

For artists, the danger of situations like this becoming increasingly public and beyond their control is that it will inevitably strain their relationship with their employer (Pokemon Company) who probably don’t really want them doing signings and public meetings to begin with.

1 Like

senpai agrees with you

11 Likes

Oh my god, they are learning🤯

6 Likes

People can do what they want with their card…point. Let the market decide the true value… The market is ultimately efficient, it will correct, if there is no value overtime. Let 's no try to put controls… many society tried and failed.

Just an opinion, don’t shoot the messenger.

1 Like

Saitous last sentence to me confirms that he is aware of sales, but they just don’t want to know about it.

2 Likes

I do feel like this topic is just a big circle anytime someone sells an auto; artist finds out, isn’t to thrilled about it, and gets forgotten until the next sale

1 Like

I don’t think the issue is whether a signed card can be sold. It happens all the time. I don’t think the price is an issue too (but it does make the story more viral).

The cultural norms in Japan are much more strict than the “do whatever you want” individualistic principles more common in the West. Even putting those aside though, the problem goes deeper. It’s really deception that is the problem. It’s saying that you “will treasure this item forever” and then flipping it 2 months later. Because now it’s something bigger than an individual choice one person made. It’s the same as the people who followed Arita back to his hotel in Florida. You can frame it as “they were just trying to shoot their shot” but the consequence is that it strains the already tenuous relationship between the artist and the collector community.

The idea that a signed card should never be sold is not a realistic one, especially with the prices they can fetch. But at the same time, there’s a basic amount of tact involved. If you lie about your intention or harass the artist or get caught wiping off personalizations or whatever, you are now threatening the future of signing events for everyone. Pokemon could snap their fingers and shut that door anytime they want. That is really the problem here

7 Likes

Unfortunately that seems to be fine with the flippers. Happens all the time in traditional autograph collecting.

Guys basically try and “ruin” new artists or actors by taking advantage of there excitment and eagerness early on to sign a bunch of stuff.

The artist eventually gets annoyed and limts or stops signing then the same people that got stacks of stuff and ruined the signer profit from the stack of stuff they got when they were signing.

Sometimes its even worse with the artist believing the resellers have been OG fans from the start and keep signing for them after cutting off signing for others.

If it happens in Pokemon all the people that went to the early signings and stocked up will have there items increase in prices and are almost incentivoed to ruin it for others :frowning: