It’s not a matter of not wanting to see market threads. Only certain ones. Right now you have to sift through all and their replies in order to get to ones you may want to see/participate in.
2 Likes
That wouldn’t be fixed with a separate market/investing forum though, unless you really break it down into a lot of sub categories and moderate exactly what threads are allowed where.
1 Like
I don’t think Devin is suggesting that we remove any kind of conversation from the mix, just that we restructure the forum to cater to people who prefer one thing over the other. And while I can see that working in principle, in practice it would be a lot of work to implement.
Charlie pretty much hit the nail on the head with the whole investing/market/collecting thing. I personally do not like the direction that a lot of the discussion in the Pokemon community (not just on E4 but elsewhere) is going because I’ve always seen Pokemon cards as a collecting goal. I enjoy talking about the market, but I enjoy talking about collecting more. I feel like the enjoyment for the cards that drove us to purchase them in the past is being replaced by an enjoyment for the future monetary gains that the cards will provide. However, I’m fully aware that this is a backwards vision that does not comport with the reality of where the hobby is right now, and I’m not going to proselytize over the “correct” way to buy Pokemon cards.
Speaking as someone who has similar views to the people who are fed up with the “whatshouldibuy/howdoistonk” discussion, I can say that it has definitely improved. The addition of the Giant Market Thread has helped tremendously. However, as I’m sure many people can see, just because you have a megathread doesn’t mean people use it. I am very frequently moving low-to-zero effort posts and howdoistonk questions into that thread. Some threads in Price and Market Discussion are just better served to be on their own and they stay there.
E4 is a reflection of the Pokemon community at large. Right now, with the current massive price rises which really show no signs of stopping (where’s my retrace plz), investment and the market has become a dominant topic of discussion. To be fair, it’s only natural when you could have bought dog-shit smeared cards in 2019 and they’d have tripled in value by now. I fully expect that when things settle down, the investment and market discussion will become less prevalent.
9 Likes
Site is already too heavy handed with rules in which people creatively bypass anywho.
I bet all this would accomplish is a headache for mods as they constantly move threads and comment, “this should be posted on X side of the line”
I think people forget that we all collect 2 things; money and cards. Its inherently connected. You can’t “collect” without spending money. Naturally people want to talk about the other half of the equation. Separating something that is naturally connected is artificial.
Also, Platforms focus on a net positive. Its impossible to satisfy every individuals preference, which is this topic. E4’s net are lurkers. On average we have 2,500-3,000 per day. Here is a snapshot of this past months analytics:
We already have subsections, and the mods do their best to move posts. However creating an entirely separate forum for just collecting is not only double the work, its impossible. Most topics aren’t binary. The mega threads are a microcasm; we try to make the best judgment on what should be moved, but its an impossible task to satisfy everyone.
6 Likes
Prolly leave it for now, I’m not sure whether we get enough traction on other side to create 2 sub-forums. Although discussions about the market tend to pop up everywhere e.g. the giant auction thread, the giant market thread (where it should be), etc.
The mods are doing a great job, but I guess if it becomes too much we can voice it out again!
I think people are absolutely allowed to discuss their interest in the hobby.
But one of, if not the most popular forum in world is reddit. And one of their most prominent features is flagging a thread with a flair, or topic type. And the ability to filter out that flair or topic type.
People who don’t want to discuss or engage with certain content can then freely enjoy whatever they want without much effort.
Can we do that on proboards, I’m guessing not. But a way to filter threads in new topics by it’s subject would be immensely appealing and helpful to anyone looking to personalize the type of content they want to engage with.
It’s just as much allowed to like or dislike certain types of discussion, or even change what you want to talk about on a daily basis.
5 Likes
Here is the plugin library: www.proboards.com/library/plugins/3030226
If you guys can find something that lets you filter threads, sections, etc. let me know and I will buy it! I think that is the best solution (if it exists).
4 Likes
It’s just a technology and organization issue. I don’t think anyone is suggesting to get rid of any conversation but just to better organize the types of conversations people are interested in. As mentioned, the hobby is growing everyday and there are diverse sets of interests and motivations behind why people collect; it makes sense as the hobby gets bigger, we can better reflect that diversity. While I’m not recommending this exactly for e4, take a look at how the sportspeople break down their forum: www.blowoutforums.com/
If you do it correctly, it’s only a net positive with little manual work required from mods. We basically already have this 2-forum system in place with the “mega market thread” but it requires heavy mod involvement to make it work. IMO there’s really nothing lost by somehow making the distinction between “money” and “non-money” related posts - while still encouraging both. As I mentioned in the first sentence, it’s mainly a technology issue and I don’t know enough about proboards to recommend the best way to do it. But I’d be in favour of the recommend change if done appropriately. I’m also ok with how things are right now though so I can appreciate that perspective too.
2 Likes
@smpratte The issue with a market mega thread is what would have been dozens of individual threads are all crammed into one thread and maybe theres something on page 10 you want to talk about but the conversation has long since moved on. I think a mega thread for the market is very detrimental to conversation on the forum.
1 Like
@azulryu I feel your pain somewhat. Everytime I make a collection video I’m basically making it for my own viewing. They get some views but hardly any. I also have a whopping 12 subscribers. I was never trying to make a big channel but I’d like people to at least see my collection I’ve built.
I know I could definitely improve the quality of the videos but there’s no point in buying fancy equipment for videos people don’t view.
It’s had me thinking of making click bait titles like the following below:
My 100k Collection
How I made over 100k Collecting Pokemon
Check out my 7 figure collection
How to make money collecting Pokemon
Investing in Pokemon
Wotc investing etc
But I’m not stooping down to these type of titles just to try and get views.
As far as the topic of separating the forum I don’t think it’s necessary or beneficial in my eyes.
Good luck with your collection goals everyone!
I hear you, but that was the previous recommendation. Which I think ties into my point about net focus; you can’t satisfy everyone. Even in this thread alone, some people prefer the mega threads, some people want separate. I personally am not bothered by market discussion, outside of “how do I make money” topics, which aren’t that common on E4.
If you dont want to be a hype beast or simply dont have that personality its near impossible to start on youtube now
1 Like
I agree with OP
1 Like
@modestmudkip Ya I figured that out. If I don’t hype Pokemon no one wants to watch. It is what it is tho. I never wanted a big channel anyways. I just wanted more people to see my collection. I’m not going to stoop down to hyping for views. I’m not worried about it tho I just figured I’d vent that no one cares much about collections lately.
Its not just pokemon tho, all of my hobbies have channels where the top dude is an obnoxious hype beast. Its just what works on youtube
2 Likes
I want to drop a comment about vegetables, but I don’t want to get banned.
Greetz,
Quuador
16 Likes
I think @fourthstartcg nailed it. I’ll take it a step further.
The root of the problem is low quality and low effort posts. They are draining to the community, they are cyclical, and there is a myriad of them.
How are low effort/quality posts draining?
- They muddle better discussion.
- They normalize shit posting if they get popular.
- They cheapen the branding of the forum.
What are the issues?
- Difficult to moderate.
- People get caught up in the riff-raff.
- Bad posts are tolerated.
What are possible solutions?
- Moderators do what they can to remove the garbage.
- Members encourage more rigorous discussion.
- Ignore bad posts or contact a moderator/admin.
1 Like
I went through the entire list of 35 pages, but I don’t think there is such a plugin (unless I’ve looked past it). The only thing coming even remotely close is the User Blockable Threads plugin, which apparently allows each individual user to block posts/threads of a certain member. We’re actually looking for something similar, but tied to a certain section instead of member. I guess theoretically it could be abused for our purpose if a mod creates a dummy account for each section, and edits in that specific section-user as the first post in every thread. Then all normal users can block that section-user, haha. Jk ofc, since the mods are already very busy and that idea is completely infeasible, but that seems to be the only very distantly available option from that list of plugins. I’ve also came across this Multicolored Categories plugin, but unfortunately this only changes the colors of the main menu item… I had hoped it allowed one to change the colors of all threads based on the category it was posted in. That way it would be visually easier to skip all threads from the Price and Market Discussion section. But apparently it won’t even change a subsection in the menu, only the main sections in the main menu…
Tbh, most of the interesting/useful plugins I came across seem to have already been installed here. 
Like the bookmarks, text under the menu sections, participated threads, etc. etc.
Not sure how easy it is to create a new plugin. Although I’m a software developer, I must admit GUIs and plugins aren’t really my expertise.
As for the actual discussion and proposal, I don’t think it’s a good idea to split the forum personally. I do agree it’s annoying to see so many posts in the New Topics section that you don’t really care about - regardless of what it is about (when I came back from a 6 days vacation, 17 pages of new/updates threads were there for example). But as mentioned earlier, collecting / investing as words and what they represent may be separated, the threads - apart from some few exceptions - can’t easily be placed in either of the two categories. Although it’s unfortunate, these two go across each other in threads. Collecting threads still get questions how much someone paid for a certain item; threads about market discussions still mention recent additions to their collections. Although there certainly are some black and some white threads, almost all of it is a grey area you can’t really just split imo.
I think Charlie hit the nail on the head: this currently is a new trend in the collecting world. I don’t just see it with Pokémon tbh, but also in other communities. Investing seems to be a new trend of 2020, and people having more time and more money to spend due to the pandemic certainly doesn’t help either. I don’t like it either. Don’t get me wrong, I love that the community is thriving and we have so many new members and collectors every day. But at the same time I see prices increase, increase, increase and more and more people talking about :whatshouldiinvestin:/:whatshouldibuy:/:whatshouldiflip: which makes me worry about my own collection goals while at the same time trying to keep up with all releases. Still, despite those prices I’ve been able to complete some collection goals recently, and I still enjoy collecting Pokémon cards as much as I did five years ago, and I’m sure that won’t change for at least a couple of years either.
Anyway, since you propose a split on the forum itself, it would mean someone has got to develop a proboard.com plugin to accomplish that. I think a better solution is what @thane suggested: something that allows us to filter threads based on their section.
Btw, for the first two or so years I’ve been active on the forum I didn’t even use the New Topics button. Instead, I went over each section in the main menu one by one and look at all new threads. That’s also an option for all people who don’t want to see any threads of the Market/WTB sections. Simply skip those sections when you go through the new posts of each section.
The only very small disadvantage doing it this way (which is why I’m glad I saw that New Topics button after two years, rofl), is that the threads cross-section aren’t in chronological order, since you go over them per section. I remember I sometimes had people refer to a previous thread that I hadn’t read yet because it was in a section further down the menu. But apart from that it’s a great way to look at unread threads while skipping certain sections you’re not interested in.
Greetz,
Quuador
8 Likes