What came first, the chicken or the egg?
The answer?.. is both of them… that is of course if the chicken was shadowless and the egg was 1st edition base set.
Edit 1: or vice versa 
Shadowless cards are produced, a good number are taken to get stamped. Orders are placed, the amount of orders placed exceeds the expected demand and the 1st edition run is dried up. Remaining orders are fulfilled with the unlimited shadowless release. If WOTC never changes the design of the cards shadowless cards would be worth the same as any other unlimited set.
This same practice happens with a lot of sets, of jungle unlimited and jungle 1st ed went out at the same time would it matter? Collectors care about shadowless not because they think they’re the first print run, but because they’re visually different.
1st ed base has two stamps on them based on production practices. Yet collectors collect all sorts of variants. Very few collect because thick is first and thin is second. Some do, but most demand is based around visual appeal and reputation.
I can turn to anyone and say 1st edition and everyone knows what that means. I can’t tell everyone that shadowless is a 1st ed print run without the stamp treatment, or that thick stamps have the first run of the stamp process. Some people care, most just collect the cards and don’t put monetary value into the story behind it. It’s a cool story, but it doesn’t make me want to pay a $1,000 more for it.
We all get what you’re saying. You think you have a good reason to believe in shadowless. It’s a good set to collect in, I hold many myself. I just know demand is higher in 1st ed, which is why thy sell for more.
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Shadowless and 1st edition were sold together, at the exact same time. Now, for any singular person in the hobby paying large sums for these cards, they will know the distinction without having to be explained what 1st edition or shadowless are. This is my point.
This is actually wrong. 1st ed were sold first, shadowless were sold second. When they got distributed they were released to their regions based on orders placed. If demand didn’t exceed the 1st ed print it would have been distributed everywhere. Because demand exceeded the 1st ed print shadowless were sent at the same time, but second orders were filled with shadowless or unlimited, not 1st edition.
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Wrong. I was there. And so was Gary. We lived it. I was at the store on day 1. Gary sold the product. Also, I live on the west coast close to where these were being produced. If you bothered following the other thread you would have learned this… after so many years of having ‘followed’ this set. Cullers, I’m not trying to be a jerk, but this truth had NEVER been discussed here until that thread from the other day. Shadowed unlimited was sold very early into its initial release. Cullers… this IS what happened.
Lets take your point that shadowless had a smaller print run and was sold at the same time as 1st.
What are you trying to prove?
Thank you for keeping an open mind and asking a question. What I am trying to prove is what Gary has speculated for for years. The truth about shadowless. It cannot be faked. There is a lot less of them, and historically as has always been said in this hobby… the older the minter the better. Regarding Pop 10s, years down the road, why would people pay more for 1st edition base set holo when the shadowless, the same card sold at the SAME time, is rarer by a factor of 2 if not 3. My point is that there is not as many of them and they cannot be faked. There’s a guarantee associated with that card that 1st edition base set cannot be given.
I know what you’re trying to say, but it’s wrong. WOTC fulfilled their first orders with 1st edition. The only reason shadowless were sold too is because WOTC didn’t have enough 1st editions to sell on their first order. Their distribution went based on region.
Saying they were sold first isn’t correct. It’s a consequence of WOTC not meeting demand. It’s misleading to say they were sold first. If you want to say they were distributed at the same time, you’re correct, but still misleading. Shadowless was distributed more than once, while 1st ed was only distributed once. If you want to say they were the 1st print run you’re correct, but we season efour members already know that.
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Dude I get your passion in the 1st vs Shadowless debate, but why create an entirely new thread when there was already a perfectly running discussion on this already?
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Shadowless was distributed at the same time as 1st edition. Shadowed unlimited came to be around the end of the 2nd week start of the 3rd week. Shadowless and 1st edition WERE the same run. No, cullers. You did not know this. But this is what happened.
Because there is misinformation here still being discussed by well known members like cullers. It is not beneficial to rewrite history. For all I know cullers was too young at this time, or lived in a market off the coast to truly know what happened.
First edition was initially shipped with base unlimited that came to be known as shadowless. It WAS the first shipment of cards to stores.
You just repeated what I said…
Sure but all I’m asking is to keep it one place, trying to get your point across by duplicating makes it harder to track meaningful discussions.
What cullers is saying, is the first orders were shipped the 1st edition print, any orders after that were sent the ‘unlimited’ shadowless print, because the 1st edition print was so low, both were likely shipped at the same time as orders exceeded the 1st edition supply so quickly, however that doesnt negate the fact that who ever ordered first actually received 1st ed instead of unlimited
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No no no, that is wrong. Distributors evened allotments for both 1st edition and shadowless unlimited at the INITIAL order. They were out of stores within a couple of days. For those too young to remember, or not there at all, it was a craze that unlike anything you have seen in the hobby including pokemon GO.
Edit 1: and that was the only order that contained both 1st edition base set and shadowless as we know it today.
just to clarify. If you ordered first you might not have gotten a 1st edition. WOTC fulfilled their orders based on region so when they went to distribute order could have been placed before someone on the coast, but when they got shipped the coasts (I’m not sure exact region) would have gotten a 1st ed while someone in a different region got shadowless even if the shadowless order got placed first.
Example:
Person one orders a box
Person 2 orders a box
WOTC complied all the orders together and released their product and some regions are fulfilled with 1st ed boxes while others get shadowless.
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This is the most important discussion in the hobby. Right now, there are people with memories still sharp enough to remember what happened. Just think about all of the younger collectors who dont really know what happened that first week.
On day 1, both of these sets were made available to purchase at the store. They were shipped alongside each other, and received by sellers at the same time. That is what matters.
True, not disputing that. I’m saying that on the distributor level the only reason that happened is because the demand exceeded the 1st ed run. If it doesn’t it would have been business as usual.