Seriously! You don’t even have to go that far back. I remember in 2019 selling psa 10 scream pikachus for $150. That hurt to type! 
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As a skilled baiter, you wrap interesting topics in easily-refuted and sensationalized claims. For example, the title says that you “refuse to buy” any graded vintage card that’s a 7 cert or higher because of possible altering. Any cursory look through your post history reveals not only a significant number of 7-cert and higher vintage cards you’ve purchased, but also claims of other certs or items you allegedly don’t want but seem to purchase.
Beyond this, the post itself begs for an argument rather than a discussion. Instead of discussing the growing prevalence of altering, you wrap this up in a refusal to buy any 7-cert or higher vintage card. This extreme position (which as evidenced above you don’t actually subscribe to) baits people into refuting the sensationalism (e.g. not all newly graded cards are altered, altering might not start at the 7 certs exactly, be careful where you buy your cards).
Thankfully most of E4 has avoided the obvious bait of arguing over your collection contents and the sensationalized claims in order to discuss the more interesting implication of your post, which is the implications of increased card altering and whether buying cards graded before this phenomenon may be helpful for those who want to avoid altered cards.
I hope that if you want to keep participating on E4, you avoid this style of posting. This thread is proof that you can start an interesting conversation and you don’t need sensationalism or bait in order to do it.
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I personally wouldn’t mind buying a cleaned card, as long as it’s properly disclosed and not hidden. This kind of practice has always existed in the art world, often involving pieces worth much more than trading cards :
The restoration of a painting can both increase and decrease its value, depending on the type of restoration and the condition of the artwork before restoration. A well-executed restoration by a professional can enhance the painting’s appearance and increase its value, while a poorly done restoration or excessive interventions can alter it and reduce its value.
Increase in value:
- Minimal restorations:
Repairs to tears, varnish touch-ups, or the replacement of small missing areas can improve the painting’s appearance without fundamentally altering it. - Cleaning and grime removal:
Professional cleaning of a painting can reveal the original colors and restore its brightness. - High-quality restorations:
Restorations carried out by qualified professionals can improve the painting’s condition and make it more appealing to potential buyers.
Decrease in value:
- Excessive restorations:
Excessive retouching, heavy overpainting, or clumsy interventions can alter the original appearance of the painting and make it less attractive. - Poor-quality restorations:
Poorly executed interventions can even cause new damage to the painting and decrease its value. - Lack of authenticity:
Overpainting or interventions that significantly alter the artwork can raise questions about its authenticity and reduce its value.
In summary:
Restoring a painting can improve its condition and increase its value if done properly by a professional.
Poor restoration or excessive interventions can alter the artwork and decrease its value.
The authenticity of the painting should be preserved as much as possible during restoration.
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Did you use ChatGPT to defend altering?
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Yes, because I’m not a native English speaker and translating it would have been too difficult for me. But I’m not defending altering, read more carefully.
I mean, people restore works by Picasso, Da Vinci, Monet, etc. But somehow, the idea of ‘restoring’ Pokémon cards is completely off-limits? Come on. If people want collectibles to be taken seriously, more like works of art, then they need to be more open-minded and acknowledge the reality that restoration exists and is accepted in more prestigious markets.
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How can you even compare paintings (restored to be preserved over the years, with everything disclosed and extensive studies/research ) vs cards with thousand of copies (“restored” in a basement with some sketchy crap just to speculate)
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want to compare to something similar? compare it to coins. No one wants polished coins in the numismatic world.
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Why should I give the time of day to something AI spit out instead of what a human wrote? ChatGPT always produces these fence-sitting statements that don’t advance discussion in any meaningful way, and this was no different.
Restoration for historical preservation and card altering for the purpose of deception and profit are two completely different things. I feel for you communicating on a forum that’s not in your native tongue, but you’re missing the point of this discussion by attempting to take a broader approach.
Also if you want to use a bot but in a more transparent way, E4 has its very own @Swoobot (just ping it but at least it lets people know you’re using a bot to quickly look up a bunch of information rather than citing it as your own ideas).
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What a fascinating thread! The debate over card alteration and restoration is certainly heating up. It’s clear there’s a lot of passion around whether these practices should be accepted or rejected in the Pokémon card community, especially with how it compares to art restoration.
The cabal’s motto "antiquior. rarior. integrior. melius.” highlights the importance of authenticity and integrity. It’s understandable why folks are cautious about alterations, as it can challenge these principles.
Remember, whether or not one chooses to engage with altered cards, transparency and informed decision-making are key in this hobby. If you have questions or need a deeper dive, tag me!
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That’s indeed a good comparison (to coins), I’ll keep it in mind 
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Coins are a bit of a tough analogy too, as there’s the at home, wreck the value polishing/cleaning, and then there’s NCS “conservation”. NCS is an arm of one of the major grading companies (NGC/CGC) that restores coins that have chemical residue or terminal oxidation to try and save the coin.
Kurts card care and cert # are apparently the 2 things that make E4 go into a absolute crapstorm. I am a supporter of cleaning your cards for your own personal collection and even selling if it’s properly advertised. Keep in mind that people restore stuff to resell and profit off of for cars, paintings, coins and much more without saying anything about it.
In terms of certs, I don’t really care, if it has a rayquaza and dosen’t look like it’s supposed to be a 8 and not a 10, I’ll personally go for it and put it in my cart. It’s better that people refuse to buy certs IMHO, just leaves more of the market available for me to get the cards I want.
Except it is never advertised (and for a reason)…
The correct car analogy would be someone selling you a car that’s been in an accident, repaired, but never disclosed. Buying a restored vehicle that is advertised as such, can actually be a good thing when done properly.
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The difference is that paintings are 1 of 1s and Pokemon cards are mass produced. The point of art restoration is to remove literal dirt and smoke and patina that obscure the painting and prevent it from being appreciated the way the artist intended. If you get a PSA 3 Da Vinci you can’t simply just look for a better copy. Failing to restore it means that nobody actually knows what the painting should look like.
Another difference is that paintings are valued for the artistic merit and for the notoriety of the artist and not really for condition. In contrast, the majority of the value in Pokemon cards is based on condition. It’s not like you have a $50k Picasso becoming $5M after restoration. Whereas the goal of alteration in pokemon is entirely to increase the resale price of your item.
The final important difference is that art restoration is actually a field of study with principles and skill required. All reputable art restorators use reversible material whenever possible and also transparently keep records of all the alterations made or will use materials that glow under UV light.
It’s not even remotely a fair comparison. From intention, to professionalism to transparency, it’s completely opposite.
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FYI, the way wax polishes the card is by the wax filling in the scratches. You technically are leaving some level of wax on the card after finishing.
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https://www.psacard.com/services/tradingcardgrading/reholder
PSA won’t check the card’s grade and (presumably) whether the card’s tampered with again in reslab services unless the card held was replaced with a fake copy or the original slab was damaged badly enough to have the card inside damaged as well.
Which happens quite a bit!
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Don’t mind me, I just have the bad habit of whenever seeing people starting a thread of “am I the only one…” gives me the urge to come in, leave “no you’re not” and drop mic.
It just turned out that for this thread people started to go off topic (at least from your title) and made it become interesting.
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I know this, however, this is very clearly a modified card. In these instances they should ignore protocol and take necessary actions.
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I don’t have anything with cert 4 in my PC, I have a M Mewtwo EX Creatures with 4 in the cert, but it has been for sale and out of my PC since I have a History Gate now. I am Chinese and I actually have been avoiding 4 in cert if possible, but sometimes it is impossible to evade when finding a great pick up.
I also have started to look into PSA 10 WOTC 1st Editions and high-end slabs and I am personally just explaining my thought process and genuine concerns of newer certs with the rapid growth of altering and hearing talks about it everywhere I go. I used to have so many PSA 4,6,7,8, etc. I am cleaning out my collection and only having high grades of set cards (9/10) or just rare cards in any grade.
Jeeze, guys, please learn this
The polish DOES NOTHING
It is not worth your time, money or consideration
It isn’t worth buying
It doesn’t fill in scratches
It doesn’t remove layers of foil
It doesn’t remove print lines
It just removes surface dirt - that is it, maybe makes the holo shine a small % more due to the removal of said age related dirt…nothing more
The issue is with the guys doing the dent removal, humidity treatments, dipping cards in chemical solutions, removing whitening on edges etc which truly messes with the way the card was put together.
A small bit of polish is the least of your worries, as shown by other posts above.
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