I “have to remember that PSA is a business”? Really?! Joe Orlando is talking about a responsibility to find ways of introducing “new people to what our hobby has to offer”. Is that just OUR responsibility?
PSA lines their pockets every year from a loyal community of pokemon enthusiasts and collectors. Its’ as you say, they’re getting so many pokemon cards that they are falling behind (and expanding). ONE WOULD THINK, that they could actually show their appreciation to that community by at least having ONE “deal” per YEAR that is actually relevant to a new revenue stream/community for them. Their tiered membership caters almost exclusively to sports card enthusiasts. All their deals are for sports cards or cards that are pre 1950s. I don’t believe it’s a huge “ask” for them to put up or shut up instead of alienating the pokemon community. Almost every person I talk to about PSA says the same thing “just get silver membership for standard bulk” “PSA doesn’t give a shit about pokemon collectors the deals are all irrelevant rubbish”. They aren’t lying. The people that submit sports cards to PSA are a dying breed (they’re an aging demographic). It’s kids and young adults that are submitting pokemon cards. Sure, the bulk grading deals (that any type of collector can cash in on) are great. But that doesn’t negate the fact that there isn’t a single nod to the pokemon community whatsoever. All that raising the prices of grading will do is inflate graded card prices as sellers transfer the burden of their additional costs back to the consumer. Of course people will continue to grade; that isn’t the point. The point is making grading more accessible to newer pokemon collectors instead of just 50+ yr old, well-off professionals and flippers. Maybe it’s a crazy and “silly” opinion, but it’s mine. Sorry.
@chrisbalestra Yes and no. Pokemon is a decent amount of PSA’s business (about 10%), but one of the least profitable. Majority of the submissions are the lowest service level (bulk), to the extent that people complain the cheaper specials haven’t existed for over a year.
Any business is going to prioritize what makes the most money. Not only are sports their largest group, but the most profitable as well.
From a pragmatic business perspective, The Pokemon customer to PSA is a recently accelerated category. However 90%+ submissions are bulk or lower and majority of the complaints stem from this group. Therefore as a business that doesn’t exactly scream “prioritize”.
With that said I personally try and put Pokemon on PSA’s map, but business is business.
Yeah if you have to complain about PSA’s pricing you’re not really part of their primary demographic.
These people are happy to open up a $400 box of immaculate and pull nothing
It would be interesting to see if PSA is growing in the amount of cards graded when it comes to NBA, NFL and Baseball, whether they’re losing ground to BGS, whether new releases may make up for a slump in older sets’ popularity, etc.
Scott and budget are both dead on.
I’d only add, there is a lot of thought and reasoning that goes into their monthlys. All are what’s needed in the business sense. If they did it differently, those of us who are shareholders would not accept it.
Don’t get discouraged though. You just might see a modern special soon:)
Sure, PSA does in-fact cater to the sports card market - can you really blame them for that though? Even though Pokemon is gaining ground with PSA, the vast majority of there business is still within the sports card market.
There are many more ways for PSA to introduce more Pokemon Collectors into the hobby and/or show there appreciation for Pokemon Collectors than offering a monthly special. Look at the changes going-on with SMR - there was never any mention of Pokemon for the longest time; now there’s an article about Pokemon every month. PSA is even starting to support Pokemon-Related Events and show-case more-and-more Pokemon Cards on Social Media - they even have Pokemon-Themed Business Cards right now! Haha How would a monthly special for Pokemon promote the hobby for new collectors? You have to be a member to PSA in-order to qualify for any of the monthly specials - which implies that you already know about the market and grading. There are much better alternetives for introducing new collectos into the hobby than one monthly special - and I believe that PSA is in-fact trying to help grow the market! I’d rather see PSA promote the hobby through what they are currently doing (and expand upon that) than “promote” the hobby by offering a monthly special to the people who are already vested into the hobby. That’s not to say it would be nice for them to offer a monthly special - it would be GREAT! However, it’s simply not going to happen. Whether you want to believe it or not, they’re not in business to make you feel good, they’re in business to make money. The monthly specials aren’t in-place as a “loyalty” for people submitting certain types of collectables, they’re there to get people to submit certain types of collectables. Why have all these monthly specials been geared towards vintage cards - because more and more people are submitting modern cards and PSA is not getting as many vintage cards - so to increase vintage grading, they offer a monthly special. It’s the same logic in retail - if something isn’t selling well, offer a discount!
And to say that the membership tiers are geared towards a certain type of collector - well yes and no. They’re really not geared towards any one specific collector-base - sure, you usually receive some type of book on sports cards. Aside from that though, they’re really just geared towards what type of cards you’re looking to submit… If you like the quicker turn-around time and have a few high-value cards, the Gold or Platinum Membership is the way to go. However, if you really don’t care about turn-around time and/or plan to submit low-value cards, the Silver Membership is the way to go. They’re not emphasizing a certain type of collector there and they definitely do care about Pokemon. Just because they don’t offer a monthly special doesn’t mean they don’t care about the hobby! LOL If they really didn’t care, you wouldn’t see them doing anything I mentioned above.
Again, I’m not complaining about their pricing as much as the fact that they never have a monthly special at least inclusive, if not exclusive, for the pokemon community. It doesnt have to be anything absurd, just a nod to the community instead of ignoring it completely. Everything you’re saying about the Pokemon demographic can be said about the sporting demographic as well. You may as well just say monthly specials shouldn’t exist at all for anyone ever because the pricing is so great. I hear and understand what you guys are saying though.
I mean, you can argue that they could but I don’t think that they absolutely need to do anything. There’s monthly delays of cards being graded as is right now.
Maybe when Pokemon submissions die off to entice people back to grading stuff they’ll throw us a bone.
Agreed budget. They don’t NEED to do anything. I was just commenting on that J.O. quote that I think is just full of vapid lipservice. It’s as many people here have said; right now the pokemon community largely just bulk grade which means it’s usually flippers and older collectors with deep pockets. Maybe if PSA had a monthly special once a year they’d be able to pull in more younger people just starting to collect- people with less than 50-100 cards to submit at a time or wanting cards graded for their collections rather than because it will make a flip more lucrative.
Honestly it would be irresponsible of PSA to do any actual “special” specials of any kind at this time. I think it’d be special enough if they could get back to when they used to mostly hit their estimated time frames.
Joe Orlando…lip service? Now you’re going too far.
Joe is one of the true gentlemen and greatest advocates in the business. He’s put 20 years into legitimizing the collectible card community. He has stood up for what’s right and stamped out many who tried to harm the hobby.
He has had many opportunities to move on to BIG jobs but he’s stayed at PSA, now CU, because he’s a collector at heart and doing a job that he’s damn good at.
I’ll take your word for it Gary. I’m not trash talking him nor do I have extensive knowledge about his background. My opinion about PSA actually offering more than some instagram pictures and an article in their magazine is likely not going to change though. I still think there should be SOME sort of deal, even if it’s some trivial BS, that at least says “hey guys that are buying memberships and are pokemon collectors, we see you!”. That said, I have nothing more to add to this discussion. I respect all of your opinions and I’ve read them objectively. Good talk.
It took 20 years for PSA to finally acknowledge Pokemon and write an article. I am not directing this at anyone on E4 or in this conversation, but anyone who cynically dismisses the smr can go fuck themselves. It took so much work for those to become a reality.
Collectors today have no clue how much Pokemon was dismissed. I remember participating on sports forums, and people would literally scoff at pokemon. The hobby was never taken seriously. I couldn’t care less if people appreciate the content of the articles; the fact they exist at all is a massive net positive. The fact PSA sponsors Pokemon events is a massive net positive. The fact PSA’s instagram posts more Pokemon content more than any other non-sport collectible is a net positive.
There are a ton of strides PSA has taken in the past couple years. To the point where collectors from Star Wars, Battle Star, and other non-sports have their articles bumped for the monthly Pokemon spot.
Those things are all true.
Pokemon collectors/enthusiasts think it all happened during the natural occurrence of things. This is not true. Even before the above stated milestones, going all the way back to the early 2000s, there were a few of us working our buts off to grow the hobby…to keep it alive through some very innovative measures. PSA was one of those measures. Scott mentioned Pokemon being scoffed at 10 years ago. Just imagine what I went through a half decade before that. Me and my best friend Eddie B. along with the now deceased Steve Gordon had to shrug off major ridicule, and honestly quite a bit of self doubt, to keep the hobby mainstream and in the public eye. My faith that the Pokemon craze was different than Beanie Baby’s, pro silver age comics, and Pogs got me through some very rough times.
Some of the people here on E4, as well as PSA, are contributing to the future successes this hobby will experience so be sure to support them. Don’t worry about the extra 20.00 you may have to pay Nick or the extra couple bucks a card you pay PSA. That is what keeps the hobby strong…supporting those who support Pokemon.
Together we are big enough to be called a village, and a village is what it takes.
According to the wikipedia on settlement heirarchy we graduated from village a while ago at e4 and now are big enough to be called a town! It’s funny that conversation of this came up the other day at work which is why it was on my mind. We have a long ways to go to large town or city.
So often I reflect back and wish I stayed in the card game throughout. It’s funny in a way but mostly sad really on all the missed opportunities and extra time I could have been in the hobby. I didn’t even know there were new sets coming out all the way though there yet I was on eBay buying/selling video games and coins at the time. Even re-playing Pokemon yellow/crystal every couple years throughout 2003 when I “quit” card collecting to 2014 when I re-entered for the nostalgia blast. I am very glad there were people keeping it alive in the meantime. Not only the new sets but mainly legitimizing the hobby as a whole as you spoke of.
I thought of you and others that have championed this hobby when I was recently watching a spot on snowboarding in the Olympics. It was a tough road for the snowboarding community early on. They were scoffed at by many and it was a far cry from the star of the winter games it is today.
Such well written comments, Scott, Gary. I experienced this too starting in 2002-04 and can confirm that being a fan of the hobby was looked down upon, especially as an adult. I wish I’d met you back then because it would have been a lot easier to keep up with it all knowing there were others with the passion. I’m glad we have this community of people that enjoys the hobby respects one another for what they love It’s neat.
It’s neat.