Vintage is for sure anything 2003 or older. I wasn’t collecting during the EX era so it’s hard for me to classify those as vintage, although I know a lot of the younger crowd who first got into collecting during that time does. DP/HGSS are all middle era to me, I don’t think I’ll ever be able to consider those vintage.
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I’m curious, then: do you consider Ruby/Sandstorm/Dragon vintage? Because those are EX era sets but came out in 2003.
The most common cut-offs I’ve seen people use are:
Skyridge (end of the WotC era)
or
Power Keepers (end of the EX era)
or
Arceus (end of the DP-P era)
My personal cut-off, though, is the end of the Gameboy era. This could be defined as having ended with the release of the Nintendo DS in late 2004, but in terms of the TCG I think the more apt end would be with the end of the e-Reader card frame. The end of the Gameboy era feels like a much more significant cut-off point than the end of the distributorship agreement with WotC (especially since WotC employees designed the first several EX sets).
By that definition, the last “vintage” set was EX Team Magma vs. Team Aqua (TMTA). So for me: Base Set through TMTA is vintage. And then Hidden Legends through DP-P is “mid-era.” And anything after DP-P is modern. But it’s all subjective – this is just how I view it.
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No, I consider Skyridge the end of an era, specifically the vintage era.
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In 2002, base set, jungle, and fossil weren’t vintage. That means it takes time to become vintage. So when will the ex era be included for some of the recent posters?
A few of my personal considerations:
- Flat booster boxes
- Illustrations are limited to the half art illustration box, migration is only found in the very subtle gold stars which represents a tiny percentage of the chase cards
- Cardstock quality, this is a big one, it got thinner during EX but still very firm and
rigid, the jump from EX to DP is enormous and it’s only gotten worse since - Packaging design
- Foil (which did continue in DP but it’s not enough)
- Focus on regular holos
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Gotcha. I definitely think that’s a reasonable cut-off point. At the same time, it’s not clear to me that the end of the WotC distributorship agreement is the best cut-off point for vintage. After all, Ruby/Sandstorm were comprised of cards WotC intended to release in Jamboree. And given the e-Reader card layout, they feel equally “vintage” to me as Skyridge.
If early EX isn’t vintage, then I’d argue that neither is e-Series. I think a better cut-off point than Skyridge might actually be Neo Destiny. The fact that Expedition/Aquapolis/Skyridge were technically distributed by WotC doesn’t change the fact that the cards have a very different feel/look/art style from the earlier sets. Neo Destiny feels more like the end of an era than Skyridge does – after Neo, the art style and card frame changed super dramatically.
I like to say it swapped when the booster box style swapped from completely sealed cardboard to the open side look
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Even though the Ruby/Sandstorm sets may share the same layout, and release year as Skyridge, I don’t lump them in with late WOTC sets because those EX sets included gen3 Pokemon, which feels like a completely different era to me.
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Plot twist: there are more than just two eras of Pokemon TCG beyond ‘vintage’ and ‘modern’
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There are infinite ways to collect. Vintage, modern, species, holos, promos, type, etc. This plot twist speaks volumes.
Petition to add an extra term to this debate. Lets call WOTC antique, ex-BW vintage and everything from XY onward modern. XY and ex can be changed a level somewhere during scarlet and violet.
Probably not going to happen, but it would make the entire debate a lot clearer.
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2003 has always been the cut off for vintage. I still feel weird calling the ex era vintage. Maybe that will change with the upcoming ex release. Maybe there can be vintage, post vintage, and modern.
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The talk in the other thread about Sword and Shield being the best modern era, along with comments here got me thinking how much better things would be if broken up by era instead of the vintage/modern binary. Talking about each era’s strengths and weaknesses, and historical purpose, really puts things into perspective.
I’m sure more knowledgable collectors might have some different opinions, and I really welcome everyone’s input on this as I know this is subjective and also very biased towards English releases.
- Base Set-Gym Challenge- Golden Age of Pokemon
- Neo Series- Trying to keep momentum from the instant hit and make sure it’s not a flash in the pan. Stabilization period.
- WOTC eReader- Trying to reinvent itself and branch out, trying new things and keep things fresh.
- ex-era- Trying to find stability again after a rocky start. Very cautious at first until it hits its stride around TMvTA, and once they found what worked really pushed some boundaries (Delta Species).
- Diamond and Pearl (and Platinum)- Another stabilization period, trying to stay fresh while not trying anything too crazy as many old players/collectors had left and a brand new generation of fans were getting introduced. New players/collectors didn’t quite see the highs that the franchise had seen in the past.
- HGSS- A small bridge between DPP and B&W, knowing change was on the horizon. Tested out some new stuff (Legends, Unown Secret Rares), but was not too worried because it was mainly a filler era for about a year.
- Black and White- Total reset in both card design, set design. Needed to try and simplify things as much as possible to try and mitigate risk as it was another turbulent time for the TCG (and the franchise). As success started coming back, got more experimental and the quality of the product improved.
- XY- Mainly staying the course from Black and White, not deviating too much from the things that made the previous era successful, but with more experimentation (that more often failed than not). After Black and White tried to move away from a heavy nostalgia focus, XY shifted back into leaning heavily on Gen 1 pokemon, of course ending with Evolutions.
- Sun and Moon- With full-arts now in the game for the past two eras, it was time to push the boundaries of what cards could do and look like. However had to ease into progress to not fall into the previous issues XY had. Started off slow, but the card art got better, and the introduction of Tag Teams really showed what potential modern Pokemon cards could be like going forward.
- Sword and Shield- Followed the same pattern and Sun and Moon, starting off slow and gradually introducing more interesting ideas. The advent of Alt-Arts building off of what Sun and Moon had started to do, and putting a much higher emphasis on chase lottery cards. Really showed off some of the best art and seemed to understand what collectors in the 2020s would enjoy.
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‘True’ vintage to me is the WOTC era. I suppose you could bundle in the early Ex era with being vintage or close to it, especially in the next few years as things get older. So I guess to me there could be varying definitions of vintage depending on who you talk to perhaps.
For other TCGs like Magic for example, I’ve always felt it was the end of the Onslaught block which is also 2003 similar to WOTC Pokemon. I also go a step further and say this because after the Onslaught block the card stock changed and the foils were no longer the vintage frame style either. It also went from being primarily traditional high fantasy art & lore to a more sci-fi futuristic lore (Mirrodin block) which was far more modern than almost anything prior except for things like the old artifact cards which would sometimes look futuristic.
So yeah, for me it’d be 2003ish as the cut-off for vintage and everything else I would classify as more modern with some exceptions and arguments that could be made for the early Ex-era sets.
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I like those distinctions!
I know for cars, in order to get a vintage plate, at least in my home state, it needs to be a 25 year old or older car. Considering the history of cars, I’d say that isn’t really all that vintage… By that reasoning, my old 1999 Honda Civic is nearing the time where it would be considered vintage despite the fact that I doubt anyone here would consider it that.
In the same way, considering pokemon’s far shorter history, I consider everything through ex era to be vintage at this point. DP is nearing its time, but DP/PT/HGSS are nearing vintage status imo, so I guess they would be mid. Anything BW+ is modern in my eyes. BW is also still allowed in sanctioned tournaments for expanded format, so it’s much more modern feeling.
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I aged a few years reading this.
Also, agree with your take. DPP/HGSS could be considered its own “mid” thing but BW- is undoubtedly modern to me.
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Maybe I’m alone in feeling this way, but the transition from Neo to e-Series feels much more significant to me than the transition from e-Series to EX. The first 4 EX sets were just the continuation of the e-Reader era.
Maybe Base-Neo is “true vintage” and the e-Reader era (Expedition-TMTA) is “semi-vintage?” I feel like there’s a lot more in common between Expedition and Ruby than there is between Expedition and Neo Destiny. It feels weird using Skyridge as the cut-off because it’s slicing the e-Reader era in half. An e-Reader set released in May 2003 is vintage while an e-Reader set released in June 2003 is not vintage? Just doesn’t quite make sense to me. I feel like the cut-off for vintage would be better suited as either Neo Destiny or TMTA. Just my opinion – it’s all subjective at the end of the day.
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