I’m sorry you feel that way about gatekeeping. The members who have been around longer can be more jaded, sometimes rightfully so, sometimes they need to touch grass. Your question is reasonable and you shouldn’t feel bad for asking!
As someone who specializes in trophy cards, I didn’t know what they were when I started collecting. I got back into pokemon about 20 years ago, and started with wotc and the cards I grew up with as a kid. I moved onto the newer cards like gold stars. Once that was complete my hunger wasn’t satiated, and I discovered Japanese promos, and finally trophy cards.
Outside of my experience, I think trophy cards objectively fit the term grail better than any other card. It’s why you see people use the term so loosely, both grail and trophy. They are the top of the mountain in collecting pokemon. There isn’t another card category that combines rarity, history, and exclusivity like trophy cards. It’s why the illustrator is the most valuable pokemon card.
To me the answer is a combination of things. Exclusivity, the chase, rarity and the history. After being in the hobby a while I got bored seeing someone post base set charizard for the 10,000th time. Finding the cards I didnt know existed and learning the back story is like a drug to me. I love learning about the hobby and what interests me are the things you don’t see often. If you really want to get into trophies I recommend just browsing around first. There are a lot of “trophy/prize” out there.
Why is the Illustrator “the” grail, why not the the English Nr1/2/3 trainer 2004?
Untill today I don’t get it why those Japanese cards are valued higher.
There are not as many English Rare (less than 10 or less than 20) Trophy cards but they exist, why is it always about japanese?
There are way more Illustrators as there are Worlds top placement trophy cards. Is it only the “illustration” ?? Because the story behind winning a Worlds is in my view way more history than winning an illustration contest.
But I’m kind of alone in this opnion.
Oh- and the English cards are kind of Akabane free stuff.
It’s just always been the most valuable card. Before the 2004 trophies you mentioned existed. Here is a breakdown from a previous discussion on why the illustrator has always been the most valuable card:
Also something like the 2004 pikas wouldn’t make sense as they are a variant of the actual original trophy cards, the 1997 pikas. The 1997 pikachu trophy cards are the best contenders to the illustrator of being the peak grail.
Definitely not alone, this is something I felt after I learned more about other trophies. Too many good ones to say Illustrator is the most valuable.
The art is incredible though, makes sense that people would gravitate toward it in the early days of the hobby, and build it up as the icon it is today
I’m sorry you felt this way. However I would compare it to the same burnout minimum wage service workers feel. Hundreds, and I mean hundreds of people, will sign up to E4 and then say something like “I’m 16 and my mom just died and left me $20,000. What should I buy?”
10 years ago Pokemon was worthless. So anything like Base Set being called a “high end grail” is lost on a lot of people. Don’t stress it though. Just be yourself and participate in engagement rather than info aggregation that informs your financial decisions.
I’m simply more interested in any card I can read.
Any card you really had to earn, to much a player of the game I suppose.
The realy holy grail back in the days (before 2004) was without doubt the “grand party”, that was the card people were after (at least here in Europe)
Except they were not awarded to real Worlds winners. You cannot compare a TMB or other tournament vvs Worlds before TPCI took over.
Worlds championships started to become really Worlds at 2004. Before there was a minimum international players who even got the option to get to any “bigger” tournament.
The 1997 Pikachu trophy cards were awarded at the first official pokemon tournament. The 2004’s and the same art used for the next 10 years were based on the original 1997 Pikachu trophy cards. Collectors value the original more than how many countries were at a tournament. In fact as a whole, there is little to no connection between the actual tcg and collectors. It’s why Charizard outsells more playable cards.
The real problem around 2004 was for the TPCI to get original artwork.
The Japanese simply didn’t allow it. It’s a weird balance between the USA and Japanese departments.
So if it’s about first appearance I can understand. However the story behind some cards I way more impressive later on.
I don’t have an Illustrator and I don’t want one. However I can see the art is very nice.
As someone who is lucky enough to own the Illustrator, 97 pikas and 2004, its really hard to ignore the original aspect of 97’s and the unique art of both the Illustrator and pikas. I do value the worlds trophies, but 97’s being the original plus that handdrawn art is peak! Even if the illustrator had a birthday pikachu situation, and there were 10,000 copies, I would love it the same!
I think the gatekeeping comment is interesting. When I joined in 2021, I was one of many new users and was mostly afraid to ask some of my newbie questions. From what I’ve observed, with each boom there are many new users who join with the intention of investing. The members who stick around are very much passionate about pokemon (not just the tcg). Therefore questions that contain the word “invest” get filtered out naturally.
After getting to know some of the members on here and interacting with them, this forum is very willing to help out fellow collectors and are very open to teaching new users when they sense that same level of passion from whoever is asking. Re: “trophies”, these things take time to learn (much of it on your own volition) and this forum provides a gateway to that knowledge. That said, it’s much easier to learn about prize/participation cards today in 2025 than in 2015, and a lot of that is thanks to e4.
I think interacting on a forum is a uniquely vulnerable experience that was common back in the early internet but is not something people are used to anymore. On the algorithmic social media sites, you’re basically surrounded by people you already agree with that reinforce your viewpoint. On Reddit and Discord, the stakes of any particular comment are very low as most people just scroll past your comment. Whereas on a forum you are basically taking center stage for a moment as an outsider to a what is perceived as a highly established group.
I think that’s why you disproportionate comments about gatekeeping and being unwelcoming while in practice it’s extremely tame here.
But it’s good practice to remember how vulnerable new users are psychologically on a human level and offer them a bit of grace. There is no rule against investment discussion. We have a whole category for it.
@rainbowgym - your and other members’ comments in this thread perfectly highlight why the markets have grown so diversely over the years - some people place little interest/value on cards that they did not personally win, while others care about the unique release. The first appearance does generally matter in collectibles, which is why 1st edition will almost always be viewed as more desirable and subsequently valuable to their unlimited counterparts. Even when 1st edition JPN set cards experienced a significantly larger print run compared to their unlimited counterparts, the 1st edition cards generally fetch for higher prices.
To answer the OP question: @investoroak - I’ve historically been a set collector because those were the cards I grew up with and had interest as a kid. There are only a few handful “trophy” level cards that I actually had any interest in for my collection. I was shook when I first saw Umbreon Gold Star Play Promo and No. 1 Full Art Pika pictures, witnessing how far Pokemon cards have “evolved” with each era.
Your concern around spending capital is completely pragmatic and quite frankly, essential - with where we are in terms of price points today, being strategic with our working capital is even more vital now that prices per card are orders of magnitude greater than before. I personally had to come to terms very early on that being an exclusively puritan collector would not be sufficient because my income could not support my aggressive collecting goals even while living a frugal lifestyle. With the continued growth of TCG and collectibles as an industry, you can have relatively high confidence that whatever cards you purchase will retain value, assuming the Pokemon franchise and collectibles industry do not implode. The record prices we are seeing today will theoretically be fractions of what they will be in a few decades based on current signals.
Final thoughts:
I would strongly recommend allocating your collection (i.e. viewed primarily as consumption) and investments in the space. Trophy cards and grails may have historically been expensive, but they do not automatically imply investment-worthy growth relative to other assets. I view the Illustrator I purchased in 2023 as consumption. The ~$6000 I spent in 2014 on sealed poncho boxes when they were $40/box was an investment that allowed me to make that purchase.
The timeline for choosing when to consume versus invest varies by individual. For some, it’s driven by present conditions - seizing collection opportunities as they arise — while others prefer to continue building their investment portfolio until retirement before enjoying the fruits of their labor.
There is inherently a lot of noise in the Pokemon community today when the markets boom, and unfortunately it can drown out a lot of the goodwill that can be available. The better you can navigate through the muddiness while sifting through the meaningful discussions, the more you can devote to enjoying your collecting journey.
Hope this helps, and good luck with your collecting goals!
cpbog1
Were posts deleted? The OP comes to the conclusion that many responses were not in good faith when there were only 2 and both engaging.
I also ask the OP’s question but not from an investment angle but a collector’s one. If you like Pokemon, you collect cards that have Pokemon on them. This can also extend to in-game characters and locations but those random item trophy cards could be from any random TCG.
I guess I absolutely do not value much of the history behind them. So what if it was a tournament in 2006, 2008, 2017? The art is independent of the event. Yeah so and so won it, but with what deck? What strategy did they use? The card art is just irrelevant and this is a hobby collecting art.
Of course there’s always the rarity and price factor which are valid but completely uninteresting reasons to collect since it could be substituted with any other rare and expensive item from anywhere in the world.
Which is why I don’t get some of the elitism against stuff like Moonbreon, Ponchos, Scream etc. Just because things are popular doesn’t mean they aren’t worth collecting. They may not be ‘worth’ it to you, but again, it doesn’t mean trophies are better. I suppose some find it hard to divorce the hype and ill-intentioned people from the card like Van Gogh Pikachu, but I can, so it’s pretty weird to me to see people so dismissive of Pokemon artists emulating other artists’ styles in an official capacity.
