# Tin Foil Hat Time **URL:** \ **Category:** General\ **Created:** [June 29, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/tin-foil-hat-time/16910 "2017-06-29T21:08:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![avngrhulk](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/avngrhulk/32/2621_2.png) [@avngrhulk](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/avngrhulk)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/tin-foil-hat-time/16910/1 "2017-06-29T21:08:28Z")
Does anyone here believe that PSA grades their friends cards higher. Or switches cards that people send in with very slightly lesser examples. Has anyone had an experience where cards were graded resent to PSA then not graded for any reason. Has anyone had a card not graded due to altered stock but was graded later by same company? Like to hear everyone’s input on this. ---
**Author:** ![smpratte](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/smpratte/32/79511_2.png) [@smpratte](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/smpratte)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 9:13pm UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/tin-foil-hat-time/16910/2 "2017-06-29T21:13:35Z")
![](http://cdn1.meme.am/cache/instances/folder63/500x/78267063/conspiracy-10-guy-what-if-420-was-on-friday-the-13th.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![avngrhulk](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/avngrhulk/32/2621_2.png) [@avngrhulk](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/avngrhulk)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/tin-foil-hat-time/16910/3 "2017-06-29T21:15:05Z")
Lol there is an actual reason for me asking this, will update when I get to work ---
**Author:** ![fourthstartcg](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/fourthstartcg/32/163893_2.png) [@fourthstartcg](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/fourthstartcg)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/tin-foil-hat-time/16910/4 "2017-06-29T21:36:42Z")
![](https://houseofgeekery.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/jackie-chan-whut.jpg) Do you even know how PSA works?? ---
**Author:** ![omahanime](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/omahanime/32/391_2.png) [@omahanime](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/omahanime)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 9:37pm UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/tin-foil-hat-time/16910/5 "2017-06-29T21:37:59Z")
@garyis2000 should know. ---
**Author:** ![avngrhulk](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/avngrhulk/32/2621_2.png) [@avngrhulk](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/avngrhulk)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 10:03pm UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/tin-foil-hat-time/16910/7 "2017-06-29T22:03:21Z")
Let’s break this down “Does anyone here believe that PSA grades their friends cards higher?” Why are there a number of PSA examples that we know aren’t 10s? Why do we as a community chalk it up to a grader missed it, granted we are human and are susceptible to error are all these examples just that human error? So when I asked the question do they grade their friends copies it had a deeper meaning is there something else going on is what I should have said. And now the second portion of my initial post I want to pre-face this by saying it’s not about the money because if it was I wouldn’t have made the post in the first place it’s about bringing awareness to the community. I bought off of eBay a graded 8.5 shadowless Charizard with the intentions of sending it over to PSA because I believed it was at the very least A PSA nine could it have gotten the 10 by PSA standards, maybe, there’s a couple nicks on the back that I personally wouldn’t put as a ten but since PSA puts a great emphasis on eye appeal the front of this car looks immaculate. But any how I sent the card to PSA and they gave it an N5 altered stock? This blew my mind, one of two things is happening here either PSA made a mistake or BGS graded a Pokémon card that was altered. Either way I will be buying a black light to check to see if the card has been colored in anyway I heard this was a good way to determine it via baseball forums and I’ll be buying a jewelers magnifying glass to see if the edges of been trimmed in anyway and obviously measuring it compared to a known Pokémon card and just so we are being completely transparent this is the link to the card I bought so you all have the serial number etc. (though the case was cracked not selling it anyway cause it’s either real/not altered and a nice card or its altered and otherwise unsellable) [www.ebay.com/itm/322536951667](https://www.ebay.com/itm/322536951667). Lastly smpratte I live in westchester IL any chance I can send you the card or drive down to you to help me determine authenticity? ---
**Author:** ![avngrhulk](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/avngrhulk/32/2621_2.png) [@avngrhulk](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/avngrhulk)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 10:04pm UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/tin-foil-hat-time/16910/8 "2017-06-29T22:04:59Z")
> [@fourthstartcg](#): > > ![](https://houseofgeekery.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/jackie-chan-whut.jpg) > > Do you even know how PSA works?? I actually don’t know and I am here to be enlightened. That’s what this forum is for right? Just had some questions that’s all see later post ---
**Author:** ![joetehman](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/joetehman/32/452_2.png) [@joetehman](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/joetehman)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 10:21pm UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/tin-foil-hat-time/16910/9 "2017-06-29T22:21:18Z")
> [@avngrhulk](#): > > Let’s break this down “Does anyone here believe that PSA grades their friends cards higher?” Why are there a number of PSA examples that we know aren’t 10s? Why do we as a community chalk it up to a grader missed it, granted we are human and are susceptible to error are all these examples just that human error? So when I asked the question do they grade their friends copies it had a deeper meaning is there something else going on is what I should have said. And now the second portion of my initial post I want to pre-face this by saying it’s not about the money because if it was I wouldn’t have made the post in the first place it’s about bringing awareness to the community. I bought off of eBay a graded 8.5 shadowless Charizard with the intentions of sending it over to PSA because I believed it was at the very least A PSA nine could it have gotten the 10 by PSA standards, maybe, there’s a couple nicks on the back that I personally wouldn’t put as a ten but since PSA puts a great emphasis on eye appeal the front of this car looks immaculate. But any how I sent the card to PSA and they gave it an N5 altered stock? This blew my mind, one of two things is happening here either PSA made a mistake or BGS graded a Pokémon card that was altered. Either way I will be buying a black light to check to see if the card has been colored in anyway I heard this was a good way to determine it via baseball forums and I’ll be buying a jewelers magnifying glass to see if the edges of been trimmed in anyway and obviously measuring it compared to a known Pokémon card and just so we are being completely transparent this is the link to the card I bought so you all have the serial number etc. (though the case was cracked not selling it anyway cause it’s either real/not altered and a nice card or its altered and otherwise unsellable) [www.ebay.com/itm/322536951667](https://www.ebay.com/itm/322536951667). Lastly smpratte I live in westchester IL any chance I can send you the card or drive down to you to help me determine authenticity? I had a Mewtwo gold star come back altered/recolored one time (I pulled it fresh from a pack). While pissed, I didn’t think anything of it, resubmitted it and received the grade the second time around. As for your card, first time i’ve heard of a BGS card going to PSA and them refusing it. Did you crack it or send it in the BGS slab? ---
**Author:** ![smpratte](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/smpratte/32/79511_2.png) [@smpratte](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/smpratte)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 10:22pm UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/tin-foil-hat-time/16910/10 "2017-06-29T22:22:03Z")
First, PSA submissions are completely anonymous. In relation to your card, the _probable_ scenario is the card was altered then graded with bgs. PSA is more strict than BGS in relation to altered stock. But this is just my guess without seeing the card in person. I would gladly view the card in person if you were in the area. However I am very busy this month. If you are going to worlds or a convention I can look over the card there. ---
**Author:** ![avngrhulk](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/avngrhulk/32/2621_2.png) [@avngrhulk](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/avngrhulk)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 10:23pm UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/tin-foil-hat-time/16910/11 "2017-06-29T22:23:18Z")
Thanks for the reply I cracked it cause I thought that what you were supposed to do, I was pm’d later saying it can be simply left in the slab and sent over that way fml. Do you think I should go through the trouble of buying a black light etc or just resubmit it? I guess my post was more of paranoia ---
**Author:** ![jkanly](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/jkanly/32/368_2.png) [@jkanly](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/jkanly)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 10:23pm UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/tin-foil-hat-time/16910/12 "2017-06-29T22:23:47Z")
N5 Altered stock usually means that someone tried to press out a crease or attempted some sort of other surface restoration. N1 would be evidence of trimming N3 would be evidence of recoloring ---
**Author:** ![avngrhulk](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/avngrhulk/32/2621_2.png) [@avngrhulk](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/avngrhulk)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 10:24pm UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/tin-foil-hat-time/16910/13 "2017-06-29T22:24:35Z")
> [@smpratte](#): > > First, PSA submissions are completely anonymous. > > In relation to your card, the _probable_ scenario is the card was altered then graded with bgs. PSA is more strict than BGS in relation to altered stock. But this is just my guess without seeing the card in person. > > I would gladly view the card in person if you were in the area. However I am very busy this month. If you are going to worlds or a convention I can look over the card there. I can look up some schedules and be delighted to meet you at one ---
**Author:** ![missingno](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/missingno/32/434_2.png) [@missingno](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/missingno)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 1:57am UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/tin-foil-hat-time/16910/14 "2017-06-30T01:57:58Z")
It’s possible that some of your suspicions might be factual. But this is NOT the forum to ask in. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![fourthstartcg](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/fourthstartcg/32/163893_2.png) [@fourthstartcg](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/fourthstartcg)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 2:15am UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/tin-foil-hat-time/16910/16 "2017-06-30T02:15:58Z")
> [@missingno](#): > > It’s possible that some of your suspicions might be factual. But this is NOT the forum to ask in. 😉 Do you have any idea how much PSA makes a year? It’s about [61 million](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectors_Universe) dollars and that figure is from 2014. PSA’s ENTIRE market share is based off of the idea that they are UNBIASED and RELIABLE graders of cards. There is no way, absolutely never, that they do any of the ridiculous practices mentioned in this thread. There is no way employees could pull anything like this off. When your whole company is based off your reputation, you don’t screw around. Damage a card here and there? Sure. Miss a flaw? I bet they do. They grade nearly a million cards a year. But some high-level conspiracy to fuck with your piddling $100 Pokemon cards? Give me a break and come back to reality. ---
**Author:** ![jjnoriega](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/jjnoriega/32/2676_2.png) [@jjnoriega](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/jjnoriega)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 2:17am UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/tin-foil-hat-time/16910/17 "2017-06-30T02:17:01Z")
> [@missingno](#): > > It’s possible that some of your suspicions might be factual. But this is NOT the forum to ask in. 😉 Ohh… come on man! ![](http://i.imgur.com/s0aKTUH.gif) ---
**Author:** ![missingno](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/missingno/32/434_2.png) [@missingno](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/missingno)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 2:19am UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/tin-foil-hat-time/16910/18 "2017-06-30T02:19:35Z")
> [@fourthstartcg](#): > > > [@missingno](#): > > > > It’s possible that some of your suspicions might be factual. But this is NOT the forum to ask in. 😉 > > Do you have any idea how much PSA makes a year? It’s about [61 million](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectors_Universe) dollars and that figure is from 2014. PSA’s ENTIRE market share is based off of the idea that they are UNBIASED and RELIABLE graders of cards. > > There is no way, absolutely never, that they do any of the ridiculous practices mentioned in this thread. There is no way employees could pull anything like this off. When your whole company is based off your reputation, you don’t screw around. > > Damage a card here and there? Sure. Miss a flaw? I bet they do. They grade nearly a million cards a year. But some high-level conspiracy to fuck with your piddling $100 Pokemon cards? Give me a break and come back to reality. > [@jjnoriega](#): > > > [@missingno](#): > > > > It’s possible that some of your suspicions might be factual. But this is NOT the forum to ask in. 😉 > > Ohh… come on man! > ![](http://i.imgur.com/s0aKTUH.gif) Ya see, Haha classic. ![](https://media.giphy.com/media/ToZ2wtyFG82be/giphy.gif) ---
**Author:** ![jkanly](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/jkanly/32/368_2.png) [@jkanly](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/jkanly)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 2:51am UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/tin-foil-hat-time/16910/19 "2017-06-30T02:51:52Z")
> [@anon92205803](#): > > If N5 means an attempt to flatten a crease, is it possible the card was creased before it went to BGS and being slabbed visibly flattened it? So that when you sent it to PSA, they interpreted it as intentional flattening of the card because they were not aware that it was a crossover. Just speculating here. It’s possible but imo would be less likely with BGS cases. The older cases I have don’t compress the card any more than the usual “bow” that happens with WOTC cards. The internal sleeve just keeps it still and in place. Looking at the photos I’ll take a wager and say the crease is on the bottom right rear corner. 😊 ---
**Author:** ![avngrhulk](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/avngrhulk/32/2621_2.png) [@avngrhulk](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/avngrhulk)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 3:10am UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/tin-foil-hat-time/16910/20 "2017-06-30T03:10:05Z")
I will take a look at it when it comes back in. ---
**Author:** ![cullers](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/cullers/32/291_2.png) [@cullers](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/cullers)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 3:17am UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/tin-foil-hat-time/16910/22 "2017-06-30T03:17:33Z")
> [@Is Pokemon A Sport?](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/is-pokemon-a-sport/13176/1): > > This has been bugging me for quite some time, Pokémon is not a sport. With that being said it doesn’t make much sense to have them graded in cases made by sports card graders. Professional “Sports” Authenticators seems very specific to me. It bothers me for several reason. One for the simple fact that its an anime. Second they were mass produced and had uncalled for variants of the same artwork, almost sloppy. Third they were printed in various languages making even more variants of the same artwork, killing the factor of true rarity in my opinion. I see some of you guys obsessing over the 1st edition stamp and a shadow but forget to realize that its the same card. Fourth the cases get scratched depending on how you store them and if you store them properly you cant even look at them. Fifth the dreadful, cheap looking, repetitive, white and red label that they use, sometimes even shortening the card’s name or “Holo”, “Foil” indecisive. And dont even get me started on the grading, for years now making OCD suffering fellows go bald over the grade, taking me to my last but not least reason, buying an already graded Gem Mint 10 is even worse kinda like buying someone elses work and pretending you created it. Never forget, if you didnt pull it, it doesnt mean crap. At least that can be the actual sport of it… I’m sorry who’s the biased ones? ---
**Author:** ![avngrhulk](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/avngrhulk/32/2621_2.png) [@avngrhulk](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/avngrhulk)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 3:27am UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/tin-foil-hat-time/16910/23 "2017-06-30T03:27:58Z")
> [@buckna](#): > > No one going to mention cracking 🙄🙄 Haven’t really sent anything in before I was pm’d saying I could have left it in the case and sent it over that way. I also was transparent about the card and the serial number it carried. [Next page](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/tin-foil-hat-time/16910.md?page=2)