I’m sorry but it is your premise that is wrong. There has been a video recently where pokemonsteve resubmitted hundreds of cherry picked 9s that he thought where deserving 10, from previous thousands of submissions. Keep in mind that he made great effort to only select the best ones, which skews the sample heavily. And despite that he got 70% returned 9s. So the idea that keeps occuring in this thread that the line between 9 and 10 is blurry is a myth. Of course there are weak 10s and strong 9 but they are not in the proportions some people make it out to be.
Maybe i’m cheeky here, but i’m thinking it might even be some kind of copping mechanism from people who decided not to chase 10 and get 9 instead, or salty people who dont get why they got a 9 on their submissions when they clearly dont understand grading properly and especially dont have a propre source light to examine the small surface defects.
The results of a single regrading submission doesn’t prove anything, at all.
This is a pointless ad hominem that I should know better than to respond to, but I’ll do it anyway because it’s just so egregiously wrong (at least as applied to me). I used to collect PSA 10s–I had complete (or nearly complete) PSA 10 holo and ex sets of Ruby, Sandstorm, Dragon, Hidden Legends, Team Rocket Returns, etc. In short, the reason why I no longer collect PSA 10s is because I know how to inspect the condition of cards.
When I collected PSA 10s, I used to say nearly exactly what you just said (if you comb through my post history 4-5 years ago I guarantee you can find some such posts). It turned out that it was I who was coping with the fact that I was duped by clever marketing psychology.
Also, to be clear: collecting PSA 10s isn’t necessarily a mistake depending on your goals, and depending on how patient/diligent you are with finding strong 9s. There’s no sign that the market will ever agree with me; PSA 10s may very well continue to outperform lower grades as time goes on. I just think it’s mistake for condition-obsessed set card collectors such as myself. It may well not be a mistake if the goal is stonks.
I have downgraded most of my 10s to 9s at this point. A LOT of cards invert at 9 anyways. Even at Collectacon this weekend, we saw several 9s cheaper than what people were asking for raw.
I think ounce this hype goes down with the gold stars like the Ray , and it’s value of like 23k to what crazy amount it is now , the psa 9 pop may reach a higher number with all grades since it won’t be wanted as much anymore
I think a better way to think of it would be 6 different psa 9 TRR holos or 1 psa 10. If you could only afford one or the other, would you go with 1 holo in a 10 or 6 9’s?
Sure. To clarify, all of my comments are as it relates to EX Series cards (aka, not what most people would consider modern). Here’s an example of a 9 I bought just a couple weeks ago that I can attest from having examined it in person is in comparable or better condition than the median condition PSA 10 ex I’ve owned:
The card is in mint condition. Not CGC 9 “mint” condition, but actual mint (as in: no perceptible handling flaws; the way the card would look straight from the pack). From having examined the card closely in person, the reason it got a 9 was a print line that is just as visible as it is on almost every PSA 10 copy of the card I’ve seen (you’re welcome to go verify this yourself–look up scans of PSA 10s of the card). In fact, the only PSA 10 of the card listed on Fanatics (which has high quality scans) has clearly visible print lines. That one happens to have better corners than this PSA 9, but most PSA 10s of the card don’t and still have print lines.
People are going to get mad at me for saying this, but I think at most 10% of PSA 10s I’ve owned actually lacked flaws that could’ve arguably warranted them getting PSA 9s. That doesn’t mean that 90% were objectively misgraded–it’s just that grading is not an exact science, contrary to what many would like to think. It’s highly, highly subjective. There’s a lot of overlap between PSA 9s and 10s.
And to be clear, even though I’ve stated it many times before: the average PSA 10 is better than the average PSA 9. Visibly. But if you’re patient, it’s not that difficult to find strong 9s.
That’s the texture of the card. Go zoom in on the back of other PSA scan of an EX Deoxys ex–that’s literally just what the cardstock looks like for that set.
As I said, I’ve actually examined the card in person. But you’re welcome to not believe my assessment (though I have no reason to lie about the actual condition of the card; I’m going to regrade it, and for collection purposes, not resale).
“PSA Gem Mint 10 card must be free of staining of any kind, but an allowance may be made for a slight printing imperfection, if it doesn’t impair the overall appeal of the card.”
Does a print line fall under the category of “slight printing imperfection”? If so, perhaps they are just following their definition of their 10 grade
I don’t disagree grading is subjective, I was just simply showing what PSA’s definition of their 10 grade is. I genuinely don’t know the answer to my question as to whether or not a print line constitutes a “slight printing imperfection”, and maybe they don’t know either. But based on what you said here:
I assume the answer to my question is yes. OR (to your point), it’s just so subjective that it literally is a dice roll of 9 vs. 10 (particularly of the EX cards).
I don’t think the grading is quite subjective that it’s a die roll, but it’s definitely subjective enough that most EX Series 10s could’ve plausibly instead been given 9s. And a non-negligible minority of EX Series 9s could’ve plausibly been given 10s.
A good example of “buy the card, not the grade.” And being familiar with set-specific condition flaws. Because this sort of damage is very common in EX Deoxys but not in most other sets.
What those parts of the card should look like on a mint copy, for reference:
10 is the luxury purchase, 9 is the value purchase. I have very few cards in a 10, and they’re all either cards I’ve judged and graded myself, or cards that meant a lot to me for one reason or another, so I pulled the trigger. But 95% of my collection is 9’s.
When the cost difference between the two grades can be as vast as thousands (or significantly more for extremely high end cards) over a tiny speck of whitening or an extremely light scratch, it’s hard to not see 9’s as a phenomenal deal.
Grading subjectivity is a feature, not a bug from a TPG perspective.
Building in some level of ambuguity protects against grade guarantee claims, and will mean that there will be overlap across grades, including 9s and 10s.
Not everyone likes that, which is one of the reasons AI grading companies have had some time in the spotlight. Those aren’t fully objective either for reasons discussed in other threads.
Pick your poison people, just try to enjoy it along the way
I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said here, but just a couple points to make:
This is the nice thing about 9s (especially for a card like that Blaziken, which IIRC sells for a 5-10x premium in PSA 10 over PSA 9): the PSA 9 prices are so much cheaper that it’s not a big deal if 80% of the PSA 9s one buys are duds (which tbh might actually be pretty close to accurate lol).
And the same principle you mentioned re: scans also applies to PSA 10s–there’s often surface damage that the scans don’t show. But unlike with a 9, it feels way worse when you receive a PSA 10 card with hidden surface damage. Speaking of which, and as is topical given that you brought up Ruby PSA 10s: I had a PSA 10 Ruby Aggron holo that was in stunning condition except for a DEEP binder indent, which didn’t show in scans at all. That sort of thing is far too common, unfortunately.
Exactly zero of my PSA 10s are truly “gem mint.” If I look closely enough, I’ll see a white dot on the corner or some edgewear or some OC. But I still pay the ridiculous premiums for the 10s.
I think a lot of 10 collectors are setting their collection goals to include 10s because the journey of saving/trading up to get that 10 is more rewarding than quickly finishing a 9 set. And most 10 collectors know deep down that they are not purely collecting the gem mint card, but also the label. So for me, given the opportunity to choose between one single PSA 10 Gengar full art from XY Phantom Forces or every single XY-era full art PSA 9, I am choosing the PSA 10 Gengar.
A lot of people probably wouldn’t understand this thought process, but the reality is that the collectors in this thread are collecting different things: one group is chasing the 10 grade and the other is chasing the 10 condition (I hope this makes sense). Since we are collecting different things, it is not possible to see perfectly eye-to-eye on the PSA 10 issue. This logic is also why I can never understand why someone would rather spend thousands on a moonbreon than a XY full art, because I do not collect ultra modern.
I think this thread is a bit redundant because from a true
, you will collect what you like. If you value the card’s condition, use eyesight to find the best 9s and 10s. If you value the completion of your PSA 10 set, save up for the 10s.
if ur asking about investing, well idk, who knows.
