I would say this is conclusive and would even say this thread should not be in the guide section especially since there are 0 external links/sources, as it may confuse those looking for information.
I told you i am putting together a bibliography… I did this for 3 hour this morning when i should have been working… I will have the sources added ASAP my bad
@collect, sorry if I come across as harsh I don’t mean to lol but Pokemon history is a topic that I am very passionate about! I think you have a tall task given the above post don’t you agree that it is impossible for Topsun to put their branding on Pokemon products before they have a license?
Please don’t take this the wrong way, but besides your personal recollection, do we know for certain that JP base was released before Carddass?
I don’t have a specific date recorded for Carddass Parts 1 and 2, but if you or anyone else does then I would love to see it.
Seeing as they were both released on the tail end of 1996 and base was clearly more popular, I don’t think binder positioning would be a reliable indicator of release order* alone.
I am not trying to prove it one way or another just trying to bring knowledge to the topic. Like you, I have a great appreciation for history, so i always struggle when i hear a topic being described completely differently from multiple people. Going off what Gem Mint was saying (i need to learn how to tag people lol) with the Nintendo theory this could be how this would be possible. Nintendo was the maker of the super mario topsun cards so they could have had plenty of creative control for a future product. It would not be unrealistic for Top Seika to allow Nintendo to make a product but not release it until it was proven Pokémon wouldn’t fail. Cullers would be another person i would love to hear input from on Topsun.
Tracking back through all my sources now but it is taking a bit. I did all of this research over the last 10 days, but for some dumb reason didn’t make a bibliography… extra stupid of me considering i wrote 2-3 essays a week in college and should have known better. But this just started out as me having fun researching a set of cards i enjoy. I still believe it is possible Topsun Blue and Greenbacks were produced first.
I also wonder if binders are arranged differently in Japan? I know my CoroCoro mag opens right to left, rather than the left to right standard in North America.
@collect , You have a lot of strong assertions in there without sources:
“many people like to claim they are made in 1997 due to an article on Pokeboon. However, this assumption is wrong.”
“Although this points to a when Topsun was formally released with gum, I am certain the blue and greenback Non Holo’s were produced prior, and these cards were very likely released as giveaway promotions on a smaller level after the release of Red and Green.”
“It is possible they had the original 95 Topsun non holos produced in November of 1995 as a marketing tool to release alongside Pokémon Red and Green in December after Nintendo’s recommendation.” Above I posted a website diary that included specific dates that the collector picked up the Topsun all pointing to 1997. (If you use Google Chrome you can translate the page)
But overall the strongest evidence against is the Topsun website stating they obtained the license in 1997, in your original post you stated that Topsun text did not appear on the cards which you corrected but this is a big part of why it proves they were produced in 1997.
Yeah, this was already known. The Bandai Carddass Series 1 cards were the first cards released.
As the rest of this discussion shows, there’s really no actual evidence of Topsun being the first cards manufactured, it’s just speculation. (And a lot of the evidence is pointing to the fact that they were not manufactured before the other sets mentioned in any case).
While it’s fun to speculate, this is why release date - the only thing we have definitive, concrete evidence for - is king.
Like i mentioned in the first paragraph this is written as a research paper presenting those ideas. I can edit these specific points until i add the exact sources to properly verify each claim. I thought the disclaimer paragraph i added in at the start explained this… I am working on all of the citations now but like i said originally i wont have it done tonight… my mistake putting this out rushed this morning.
Yeah I’d heard it (not confirmed it), but then Gary stated that JP base cards were the first set cards ever, which was confusing. So needed clarification. Thanks guys
Uhm…no. Wouldn’t matter, right to left or left to right. Positioning with Jungle on one side and base on the other, anything in between wouldn’t be first.
This topic is why I started my YouTube channel. When I had Gary on and he, for the first time, said his opinion was that the green backs were first it shocked me and disappointed me… for I had just purchased a very expensive no number Charizard lol but as he kept talking I remembered that mangas/ Japanese books are to be read from right to left (back to front). So I countered him by saying the reason the blue backs were in the back of the binders is because of the direction Japanese usually use binders / books. The entire interview is up and Gary touched on much more than just the Topsun stuff… Now all this being said… no one ha come forward with definitive evidence… so it’s all just personal logic guiding our postulations.
He recommended I have eBirdman on my show… and I’ve been working very hard to get him on. He has said many times he is excited to be on and want to talk about the topic, but there’s things keeping him from doing it as of yet. I hope to have him on soon to discuss his analysis of the situation and how he derived at it.
I am absolutely fascinated with what could have been the first print run ever. Was Sugimori and Tajiri in the room waiting to see their babies enter the world for the first time? It’s all so awesome and I believe the most important and intrinsic topic to any collector of Pokémon. I feel proud and excited that since getting into no number cards two months ago that it has become such a topic of discussion. This was a wonderful post man… a lot of great points and only further pushes me to believe these were the first set.
Nicely done!
-T
