pull rate rayquaza goldstar ex deoxys vs charizard 1st base

i was wondering what the pull rates were, i thought the rayquaza was harder to get than the 1st ed charizard shadowless, anybody knows the pull ratio per box/packs?

also, there are about 125 psa10 charizard 1st shadowless but only about 45 psa10 ray goldstars, so as much as i know the ray was not not only very hard to grade, but also harder to pull (also funny that the ray price is that much lower than the hypezard when the ray is 3x rarer in psa10 lol, but that’s not up for discussion here)

the goldstars from ex deoxys where 1 in 2 boxes so you would likely see the rayquaza once in a case. For base you would likely get 12 holos out of a box, charizard is easier to pull.

Also diancie holo from legendary heartbeat is a pop 1 in psa 10. Should obviously be 45 times the price of the rayquaza in a psa 10.


Calls a PSA 10 1st edition Charizard a “hypezard” lol


all right, pretty much as expected, thanks!

yeah i hear this joke all the time, “but the non-holo diglett from that korean expansion set blabla is also pop 1 in psa10 so it should be worth 45x more than a rayquaza in psa10”…, i doubt you can compare any of the one billion pokemon cards with one of the most sought after cards in the hobby - i compare apples with apples, so i compare the zard straight with the ray.

i do indeed.

You realize the ray 10 has gone up 3 pop in 2 months or something whilst the zard has gone up 3 pop in 2 years. The ray is already WAY overvalued relative to other cards in ex era and other gold stars imo. Go have a look at metagross for example. Same pop as rayquaza but 1/10th the price? Same as the gen 3 starter trios gold star.

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Not true. Ray has gone up 3 in pop over 1 year and 2 months – not just 2 months.

Agreed. Personally, I think the most valuable gold stars should be the Hoenn starters. They were the first gold stars, and are fucking gorgeous. But the market disagrees with me, clearly. People have a singular focus on Ray for some reason. I love the card (one of my favorite cards of all time), but there are so many other amazing gold stars that are just as cool as the Ray, IMO.

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Lets not act like Torchic is cheap, it isnt far behind Rayquaza


In PSA 10, sure. But that’s only because Torchic is much lower pop. If Torchic had the same pop as Rayquaza, it would be 1/5th the price of Rayquaza.

Compare PSA 7/8/9s – Torchic and Rayquaza are worlds apart.

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lol I love the term hypezard lol

**Compare PSA 7/8/9s – Torchic and Rayquaza are worlds apart.**Can you explain? Is the torchic cheaper in these lower PSA ratings than the ray?

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every generation has its icon

gen 1 = zard
gen 2 = lugia
gen 3 = rayquaza

rayquaza gold star is where it should be imo


Yes by far. The ray is heaps more for each grade.

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So a ray 10 should be 10x a metagross 10 and 8x a mudkip 10? All three of those cards are similar pop in the 10. Ray will fall/stabilize while the others converge towards it imo.

If there was a way to short the ray and long the other 26 gold stars I would :joy:

Even when you compare the ray to Lugia neo 1st 10… seems overvalued again. The ray shouldn’t be so close to the Lugia given similar pop.

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By a gigantic amount, yes.

PSA 9 Ray is ~$10,000 vs PSA 9 Torchic is ~$3000

PSA 8 Ray is ~$5000 vs PSA 8 Torchic is ~$1500

Same with PSA 7s – Ray is at least 3x more expensive than Torchic.

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Not to mention that Rayquaza gold star is not clearly the top Gen 3 card. 1st Ed. Base Charizard, on the other hand, is 100%, without question the Gen 1 iconic set card.

I remember my friends caring more about FRLG Charizard ex than Rayquaza gold star lol. I didn’t even know that Rayquaza gold star was a card (which is probably a testament to just how rare it is). Whereas even I knew how iconic and important Base Charizard was when I was a kid, and I didn’t even grow up with Base Set…

EDIT: one thing people need to take into account is that back in 2005, little kids didn’t look up set lists on the internet. And (most) little kids didn’t open hundreds of packs of each set. So there was limited awareness of insanely low pull-rate cards like Rayquaza gold star. Compare that to Base Charizard, which was much easier to pull so kids actually were aware of its existence lol.


rayquaza is one of the most wanted pokemon (cards) out there, you can’t compare this with a metagross or a torchic, otherwise you’d also have to say that it makes no sense that every charizard is so valuable.

so explain to me why the charizard 1st ed should be 8x the price of a ray goldstar which is 3x lower pop? this would mean that the demand for charizard 1st shadowless is 24x higher than for the rayquaza goldstar. of 24 people (collectors and investors), allegedly 23 want the more common charizard and 1 wants the rarer rayquaza. to me, this makes no sense, BECAUSE the ray is similar sought-after as the charizard, not AS much because hypezard is the most wanted card in this hobby, but sure af not 24x less wanted.
yes, the charizard will always be more sought after than the rayquaza, but the price difference between those two right now is BS, either the charizard goes down or the ray goes up.
this is what hype does. this is what logan did to the hobby. ask yourself what would have happened if logan had opened ex deoxys…

It doesn’t matter what anyone thinks it “should” be. The market determines the values to be what they are. Just accept it or live in constant anger (anger about to most stupid thing I’ve ever heard of).
If you think the Rayquaza is bound to go up, go and buy some.
Your complaning here accomplishes nothing.


what would’ve happend if logan had opened ex deoxys?

what i’m trying to say here is that hype is the reason for those insane charizard prices. should the ray be higher valued than the 1st charizard? no, maybe, if the demand for charizard is less than 3x the demand for the ray, yes. otherwise, as long as the demand is higher than 3x the demand for the ray, the charizard should be more valuable.
this is simple maths, simple market. price = demand/supply

It´s pretty easy, people just care more about charizard. You can see that literally with every single modern release that has a charizard, it´s always the #1 chase card. Rarity only gets you so far, you can´t leave demand completely out of the equation.

Charizard is the most wanted card from the first ever generation coming out of the most expensive box and selling for the most amount of money out of every single set card there is.
Rayquaza is the most wanted (?) card from the third generation that a lot less people participated in, coming with a very low pull rate from a box that is pretty scarce but not nearly as valuable as base set 1st.

I really like the Rayquaza, but saying that it is undervalued compared to the Zard has no substance imo.
Ray sold for 8kish for years while the zard was hovering around 40k, now the ray is 50k and the zard 350k. Ratio went from 1:5 to 1:7, pretty logical given the position the Zard is in.

Edit: The Ray might experience drastic price changes in the future if demand ever catches up for it as you already indicated that it is much lower pop. If it gets locked in collections and is not readily available anymore we might see that happen. As it stands right now though, given the availabilty and position it is in, I don´t see anything wrong with the prices.