Oooooo is it really? I take it back that’s awesome! Wow I’m pumped
If you care about animation, don’t play PokemonIf you want an engaging combat system, don’t play Pokemon
If you want a good story, don’t play PokemonIf you don’t want to play the same rehashed game for 20 years, don’t play Pokemon
Can someone tell me what this franchise actually does offer?? Shiny hunting? The most bare-bones open world mechanic? Jumbo Pokemon?
Sword and Shield is only a ‘complete’ game in the sense that a rough draft of an essay hits the required word limit. So far everything announced about the ‘expansions’ are just standard mechanics of a regular Pokemon game. Wow, now you can go off the main linear path and hunt for legendaries! A mechanic that was introduced in gen 1. Wow, another story begins after the main one (whatever the main story actually was) that adds a couple new characters? That’s never happened in a mainline Pokemon game before. New Pokemon introduced? More Pokemon were added in Gen 2 than Sword and Shield.
Sword and Shield was clearly a rushed game. If you can’t see that then I don’t know what else to say. They sacrificed the quality of their game just to get it out faster. And it sold great, who can blame them. It’s just so sad that Nintendo’s core principle - that made them what they are today - is to simply produce high-quality and polished content. Yet when I play Sword I feel like we have been transported back into the days of E.T. where cashing out on a mediocre and unfinished game out on time is better than producing a high-quality product.
I think adding DLC content is a much better option than releasing an entirely new game like they usually do. The issue I have is that the DLC just looks like things I would have expected to have in the main game. So not only do I have to pay more for Sword and Shield than I have for previous games, what I get is very bare-bones and most of the things I actually enjoy about the mainline Pokemon games can be purchased for an additional $30.
Look, I think Sword and Shield was fun but it was just one of the most disappointing games in the franchise for me and CLEARLY many others. I also think the DLC is what the game needs. But what I see is just content that probably should have been in the core game that was withheld because it wasn’t finished yet. What bothers me is the message it sends. That Gamefreak has prioritized deadlines and money over producing a complete and high-quality product. This is what crashed video games in the 1980s and ironically, it’s Nintendo’s commitment to quality that launched it to the position it is in today. Seems like that has been forgotten.
5 Likes
There is nothing “subjective” about saying that Pokemon Sword and Shield–console games released in 2019 and given expansion passes in 2020, amounting to $90 each with the expansion pass–will each have a total of about 600 Pokemon. Pokemon X and Y–handheld games released in 2013 for $40–each had a total of about **700 Pokemon.**And it’s actually even worse than that: Pokemon X and Y had completely new models with their new animations for all ~700 Pokemon. Sword and Shield have recycled these 2013 models and animations, only adding about ~100 new models and their animations.
That is all totally objective. If you want to get slightly “subjective”, Pokemon Battle Revolution (2006), Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness (2005), Pokemon Colosseum (2003), and even Pokemon Stadium I and II (2000 and 2001) for the Nintendo 64 had more expressive and variable animations than those found in Sword and Shield.
And any Pokemon fan who is trying to be realistic could tell you how little Sword and Shield offer in the post-game relative to other Pokemon games. Especially compared to Emerald and Heart Gold/Soul Silver and Black and White II, among others.
Smogon is the heart and soul of competitive Pokemon. Smogon does all the conversation, information grinding, theorizing, and implementation to formulate the competitive element of the Pokemon franchise. I can guarantee that just about every person who has placed decently at a VGC event has consulted/worked with/studied on Smogon. VGC is sponsored by The Pokemon Company, so of course they are going to allow Dynamaxing. Smogon doesn’t allow Dynamaxing in its most popular format, because their competitive players–the heart and soul and supermajority of the competitive Pokemon community–do not like it.
I am a Pokemon fan because I love the core concept, and I used to love the implementation of the concept. Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow and Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal blew away all other handheld games at the time in terms of content quantity and depth. They boasted more “stuff” than almost any console game at the time as well. Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald started a bit of a downward trend toward meeting the level of the competition, and I believe Gens 4-6 met the level of the competition (I think Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire were the beginning of the disappointment landslide, though, due to their lack of the Battle Frontier). Since then, despite being the highest-grossing media franchise of all-time, they have not met the level of their competition. Graphically, Nintendo’s other franchises–namely, Mario and Zelda–severely outpace it. And of course, Xbox and PS4 games blow them away. In terms of evolving and pushing their concept and gameplay further, Pokemon has stayed stagnant while other big franchises like Zelda goes huge open world with a crazy weapon system and captivating story and Mario goes semi-open world with incredible, fluid gameplay that strikes the same beat as its predecessors like Mario 64 and Sunshine and Galaxy but develops it further to make it even more compelling.
This is what good franchises do. They go bigger, they expand on their concept, they push new limits that our ever-expanding technology allows. Pokemon doesn’t do this. Pokemon Sword and Shield offer less Pokemon, the same animations, a less compelling story, and less interesting ideas. They lack the extra huge challenge of the Battle Frontier of Emerald. The following Pokemon and massive post-game of Heart Gold and Soul Silver. The well-developed story of Black and White, and the huge post-game story of Black and White 2. And they recycle the at-the-time awesome, but now (in modern terms) relatively lifeless and stale animations of X and Y. Pokemon Sword and Shield was supposed to be the main series Pokemon games’ world-shattering leap onto console after over two decades on handhelds–instead, they offer less than the handhelds of years past.
This isn’t whining. This is being realistic. Sure there is some subjectivity here, but this is overwhelmingly objective evidence that I think any outside observer–if presented all the facts–would agree with. I love Pokemon more than any other media franchise. The products swamp my room and the cabinets of my house. Pokemon takes over my brain–I’m not proud to say–way more than any media franchise should, but it does. And it’s because I love the concept and I love the games, at least the old ones. The first three generations of main series games are in my Top 5 video games ever. 4-6 are probably in the top 25 somewhere. I love this franchise, but I still have expectations for it like I would any other franchise. I like Mario, but if the new Mario was bad I would say it’s bad. And if I saw enough of the trailers ahead of the time and saw it was lacking, I wouldn’t buy it. Same goes for Zelda. Same goes Animal Crossing (not impressed by the new one yet–might not be purchasing). Same goes for Halo. I have standards. I don’t want to shell out my hard-earned and limited money for something I think is severely lacking–I don’t want to reward game companies for subpar games and encourage further subpar games. No matter what Pokemon game I play–even the new ones–there is some enjoyment on my end. And that’s because I love the core concept of the franchise. Exploring the world catching and battling these magical, colorful creatures and becoming the very best there ever was is the best concept in all of media and it is what has made Pokemon popular to this day. The concept is still alive, but the developers haven’t done their part in maintaining the integrity of the franchise. And that is why I won’t be purchasing the games any further until I get any indications otherwise.
Like @pkmnflyingmaster said, if caring about animations/visual appeal and a modern/evolved/engaging combat system makes me not a true Pokemon fan, then I don’t want to be a Pokemon fan anymore. I love Pokemon, but it’s not like it’s my wife or something. If it all it does is disappoint me, I’m not going to act blind and love it unconditionally and keep giving it money. And I think I’ve given enough solid reasons to say that this franchise is not living up to what it should be, and as a true PokeFreak who has been with this franchise from the very beginning, I have good reason to leave it behind if it continues to disappoint.
I love Pokemon, and that is why I want Pokemon to be better. If we continue to give them heaps of money for lacking, subpar efforts, they will continue to produce lacking, subpar efforts.
3 Likes
While this is a subjective answer, SS is the first Pokemon game I didn’t feel the excitement. I am usually on the side of benefit of the doubt, but this is the weakest generation imo and the game feels rushed. With that said I am remaining optimistic that some of the pokemon will grow on me, like Appletun! And I am optimistic about the new open world playing style.
A more objective take, if you are comparing this game to the other Nintendo franchise games: BOTW, Mario Odyssey, SSB, its not even close. The argument that this “isn’t call of duty” really doesn’t work when the other well known Nintendo franchises maintain the same level of quality. Quality of a game is discernible, and SS doesn’t have anything significant to reference; Same models, limited pokemon (on the most “advanced” system). Even the open world concept feels half baked, especially in contrast to BOTW.
Ultimately the sales are record breaking, because the concept of Pokemon is unique. It would simply be ideal if the quality were equally as impressive.
3 Likes
I don’t want to sound too negative so let me just say what I like about the modern Pokemon games:
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New designs are largely very good. I like most of them a lot. I think the designs really dwindled around Gen 5ish, but the Gen 8 designs get an overall thumbs-up from me.
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Regional variants. A+++. Love it. I think adding too many Pokemon is bad for the games–there becomes so many that we can never really get a “feel” for/understanding of most of them. It also makes it harder on the developer. I actually didn’t much care for “Bringing Back the National Dex” and having over half the Pokemon be cut from the game IF IT MEANT THAT there would be a huge upscale in other elements of the game, mainly the Pokemon animations and maybe flesh them the Pokemon themselves out a bit somehow so we can become more immersed in the world. The reason I cite the lack of Pokemon in Sword and Shield compared to X and Y is because we are getting a more expensive game, produced 6 years later, and made on a console and yet are still getting retreaded models and animations. Back to regional variants: I like them because they add personality and immersion to a region and gives more development to the Pokemon with the new forms. I think this should have been what Pokemon was doing all along: instead of having 900+ Pokemon, we should have 300-400 Pokemon that we could really get to know and have them fleshed out with lots of different regional forms and stuff.
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The Wild Area is a start, at least, for open world gameplay. This is what the main series Pokemon games should evolve into. It is what Pokemon should be: a massive, expansive world filled with creatures where I can go where I want when I want. Gamers love open worlds. Zelda made that huge step, and people loved it, and it makes even more sense for Pokemon to do it. The Wild Area, while a start, has issues with draw distance and ugly textures and lifeless Pokemon models which knock its ingenuity and immersion.
If you are genuinely having fun playing Sword and Shield, I think that’s great for you–whether you’re a new player or a veteran. If I was completely new to the franchise, I think I would enjoy them a bit too. But regardless whether you like them or not, it could be so much better given the history and unparalleled financial power of this franchise.
2 Likes
We will continue to have vastly different expectations and ideas of what the main-series Pokemon franchise should be. I doubt there’s anything we can do to convince each other otherwise, but I will just say that to me, SwSh were incredible games that are now made even better by this DLC. I’ve played just about every main series game, from my cousin’s Blue version to my elementary school friends Ruby/Sapphire, and I’ve played every main series game on release since XY. SwSh takes such a massive step forward in terms of graphics, design, and gameplay mechanics. In some ways I think older games are better (Megas are more fun than Dynamax/GMax, ORAS postgame was epic), but SwSh for the first time felt like a Pokemon game at its fullest potential.
Perhaps even more important than what SwSh did was the potential for the future: one of the first thoughts I had after playing through was how amazing it will be to play through Sinnoh with this gameplay detail and style. Is this a finished perfect Switch Pokemon game? No way. But then neither was D/P a perfect finished DS game, nor X/Y a perfect finished 3DS game. I think the next games will take this even further and will be something even more exciting. I don’t think it’s fun to constantly be nitpicking and finding small ways where the game somehow could have been better by ditching what has characterized Pokemon for the past 20 years. Pokemon doesn’t change fast. You may want it to, but as we very well know on this forum they are set in their ways.
1 Like
I have the game, but have not started it yet because I’m still working on Breath of the Wild, but I have to wonder if the biggest critics actually got the game or are being salty for sake of adding salt lol
I heard the game was quite good from my friend and he did not like Sun & Moon, so I am optimistic that it will be good. People were mad when pokemon were cut and now they are mad when they get added.
LASTLY, to have the new pokemon added DOES NOT COST MONEY. The new areas/added content cost money, but the update so you can transfer the added 200 pokemon into the game is FREE. Yes, free! Those power hungry bastards!!!
Depending how “expansive” the dlc is, it might justify the extra 30 bucks. Maybe it is worth it and instead of a tank-top you buy the sleeves for, perhaps it is a shirt you just bought a jacket to where over the top. @pkmnflyingmaster,
I dont care about pokemon being cut, that’s not my gripe. I’m actually looking forward to the dlc because it looks like it has the actual content that I enjoy in pokemon games (ex. exploration) that just seemed absent from swsh.
I can only share my experiences and feelings with the game. Overall I enjoyed it but it just felt unpolished and underwhelming which really ruined my experience. Feel free to form your own opinions as you play the game. Going straight from Breath of the Wild to Swsh might especially highlight a few of the problems I had with the game.
2 Likes
Overall, the DLC looks exciting to me. I really like the new version of Zapdos, and will definitely be picking up that card when it releases. I also think Slowpoke looks kind of cute with its new gold highlights, and I’m really hoping Galaran Slowbro/Slowking don’t look too weird. I personally wanted to see a larger snowy area, so I’m much more excited for part 2 over 1.
I don’t really feel a connection with the new legendary Pokemon announced. I can’t really even say I connected much with Zacian/Zamazenta either so it just is what it is. My focus will be on being able to collect the older legendary Pokemon.
The price for the DLC seemed a bit steep. I was hoping for it to be $20, but deep down I knew that it really didn’t matter what price they slapped on the screen, I’ll be paying it. What I really didn’t expect though, was that the $30 was going to be PER version. I only have Shield, but I couldn’t imagine paying $60 to get DLC for both of the games. I think it would have been more fair if $30 had covered both games, not just one. Or maybe $20 for one version, $30 wombo combo gets you both? I considered buying Shield, but I’m pretty sure I won’t now.
I tried out the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon demo and it’s okay. I never played the original, just saw it sitting on shelves in used game stores forever, so it’s nice to get to experience it on a large screen. From what I played, I’m not sure if it’s worth the $60 price point to me, and I’m already solidly committed to getting Resident Evil 3 in April, so I might pass on it until the price drops.
I cant believe how entitled the moaners are in the pokemon game community. You have to be a sad individual to complain about this. Game freak are a business of course they are going to sell their product. Sword and shield definitely gives you your money worth and these expansions look amazing.
Having an opinion = entitlement
Gotcha.
7 Likes
Not sure if you are referencing the internet at large, but most of the criticisms here have been pretty conversational. At least speaking towards this thread, people are mostly highlighting differences in the game vs other Nintendo franchises. While I love Pokemon to death, the joke about “updated rosters” has some merit. Without being too cynical, I think its good to examine what could improve. Especially when the game wasn’t critically acclaimed as a masterpiece.
“Company X is a business so it is going to take actions that are beneficial to their business but detrimental to the consumer, and as the consumer you must shut up and consume the product. All criticisms, no matter how valid, are just whining and moaning. Lower your expectations. Set the bar low. Encourage further low-effort productions. This is beneficial to the business. And that is why you exist, consumer–to benefit the business. You as a consumer are worthless. You are nothing, and you are entitled to nothing. That you are allowed to buy product is a privilege. The business doesn’t exist to serve you, consumer–you exist to serve the business. Now shut up and consume. It is your duty.”
People are crying like game freak stole the food off their plate.
Definitely entitlement.
Fact is if game freak wasnt making money off these products we wouldn’t have them. I hear the same moaning everytime the market goes up in the tcg. It is definitely entitlement!
People are annoyed because Gamefreak/Nintendo are contradicting their own statements and also partaking in growing game industry practices that are anti-consumer.
Gamefreak state that the need to trim the Pokedex for the Gen 8 games is in the interest of game balance and thematic reasons, and here we are a few months later and they are announcing additions to the Pokedex from older games. So to right off the bat they are contradicting themselves.
They are also re-selling game features that has been a part of the Pokemon game for generations as part of the Expansion Passes as well. This is becoming common practice in the game industry now, but am I right in guessing that’s ok because they ‘need to make money?’
Personally I think some of the stuff in the trailer looked really cool, but my beef is the actions of the gigantic billion dollar corporation doing shady underhanded things to squeeze more money from people.
Is it the end of the world? No. But don’t pretend you are above it all by throwing words like entitlement around when people have a differing opinion to you.
3 Likes
They are literally releasing games with hundreds of hours worth of game play in them before ypu get bored. Tell me any other game franchise that gets the play from the content pokemon does? I dont see how it isn’t giving consumers bang for their buck.
When it was announced that 200 more pokemon would be in the dlc you had heaps of people call them liars as they said they wouldn’t do that. But why should ganefreak cave to those in the community and release such a pleasant surprise before they are ready just to appease the immature cries.
If anything these dlc’s show they had a well thought out plan for this gen and its been great and looks great moving forward. The games arnt perfect but majority of those who have played them have loved them. On top of that this announcement was hype af. Its just annoying that instead of being excited people continue to be downers. Where is the joy in that? I love pokemon cause it brings me joy yet the community is currently riddled with people just bringing it down atm.
I honestly feel like the slow release of pokemon has heightened the competitive pokemon experience. Enabling current players to experience a change of meta and have it constantly developing. This has also been done by the raid events too. If anything the way game freak has developed this gen has made these games more interesting for longer than any previous title. The issue is the want everything now generation that can’t seem to grasp that. Honestly if i had to catch the national dex to get my shiny charm id have not bothered as it sucks out the fun.
Then there is the money side of things. For some reason there is a mentality in the community that making money is bad, this is also in the tcg community as we saw with the spoiled signing event. Its just immature and naive to think we would be getting aby of the luxuries we are afforded suxh as pokemon if it wasnt a viable money maker.
Sword & Shield clearly show that the games were rushed. Some parts of the games are well detailed and some aren’t, which shows that some things they had time to do with care and other parts they had to do quickly. But surely it’s because TPCi is pushing GameFreak for certain launch dates and wants everything to be ready for holiday season.
There are things in the games that I’m not happy about, but I love the fact that we are getting more content. Of course, for a fee… But as a Pokemon fan I’ve already pre-ordered it and I’m excited for more. And I’m happy we will get more Pokemon (I wonder how the PokeDex will be updated). Of course a free update would have been amazing, but this is how the game industry works in 2020 unfortunately.
This simply isn’t correct.
You do not have to buy the DLC to access the extra Pokémon.
1 Like
Pokemon Sword/Shield is just a perfect example of different strokes for different folks, and that’s perfectly fine.
For example, I’ve seen a good number of people (not just on this forum) contrast it with Breath of the Wild. As for me personally? I think Zelda games are boring as all heck and I could not care less how open the world is or how good the graphics are (tried playing BOTW because I heard so many people raving about it; it couldn’t keep my attention at all).
I had a good time playing Sword and Shield because I was cool with the new designs, I thought the team-building opportunities were great and I LOVED the Wild Area, because it provided an incredibly easy opportunity to grind (something that so many other Pokemon games have been lacking).
That being said, the story was terrible, especially the part with the Chairman. It just came out of nowhere and felt rushed. As a matter of fact, I felt the postgame story with the two royal idiots should have been the main story. That actually would have been somewhat interesting.
I don’t care about the models. I don’t care about the animations. If I did, I wouldn’t still have a blast playing Gen 1 and Gen 2 games.
But hey; everyone is different and everyone has varying opinions and expectations, and that’s what makes Pokemon so great.
2 Likes
I think the DLC expansions look really fun. I’m glad they decided to expand on the free-roaming camera/wild area features and I’m very happy we’ll be getting new creatures and older ones returning. I looove the look of the Galarian Kanto birds, gimme!
I’m not overjoyed at the price, but I’ll be buying it regardless.
To expand on the discussions currently ongoing in this thread: I thought Sword & Shield felt incredibly rushed. It felt like a glorified 3DS game when I (and many others) was really hoping for something more exciting given these were the very first home console Pokemon games. In that aspect, I’m disappointed. I think GameFreak handled the whole Dexit/criticism situation terribly, but I have no idea how tied their hands were and how much instruction they have to take from Nintendo/The Pokemon Company. But overall I can’t deny I had a lot of fun playing through my version of Shield - I’ve clocked up 75 hours so far. I also bought Sword to play through at a later date.
I think June 2020 is a good release window too. After all I’m going to be sinking my entire life into Animal Crossing: New Horizons come March…