Personal Finance Megathread

I’m someone who actually disagrees with this viewpoint. The reason why so many people have a house as their largest store of wealth is because everyone needs somewhere to live. If you can scrape together enough money to buy a house, you freeze your “rent” (mortgage) payments until you pay off the house and protect yourself against inflation. There are also tax benefits at the federal and state level re:interest on the mortgage. Here’s the catch:

After buying a house, many people aren’t able to invest much elsewhere. Houses are taxed (property tax). Utilities are much higher because of greater square footage. You are responsible for maintenence, which you will need to do, and is often pricey. Also, you only get a windfall from the house by selling it…most people use the windfall to buy a new home, because they need somewhere to live. The average dwell time of an American in a house they own is 7 years. Most people do not walk away with much of a gain from their homesale as a result.

Many homes do not match or beat the s&p 500 index funds in terms of return on investment. If you don’t have to buy a home, sticking excess money into one of those often yields greater returns.

14 Likes

Underappreciated point about having a house! Hidden costs everywhere, some of them enormous, and the cost of not doing anything about it will usually be much greater, either right now or in the future.

I envy those with nepo connections to electricians, plumbers and carpenters.

11 Likes

We live in an interesting time for the rent vs. own debate. I was a homeowner from 2017-2021, and have rented otherwise.

When I first bought my house, I rented out a couple rooms to college students, which was a helpful way to get started. I googled “rent contract” and was pretty hands off with it. I wasn’t close to campus, but was close to the train line, which made it easy enough. It was a great way to reduce my housing payment, and invest the difference into my retirement accounts.

It was also a pain in the butt. It was a nearly 100 year old house, so there was a lot of maintenance and house chores. But, it provided stability. That’s what I’m craving now, I’ve moved many times even before buying my house because landlords decide to increase rent by 50% or something.

Planning to own a home again in the near future even with a 5-10 year time horizon for selling. The stability is a huge benefit, even if right now the math doesn’t quite work out on the rent vs. own if you invest the difference. Home ownership is expensive right now, especially if you’ve bought in the last couple years.

4 Likes

I see home ownership as more than just having a place to live but also investing into your family’s future down generations. People often say “it would be nice to have generational wealth” and what they are most likely referencing is inheriting a house among other assets. Like Will said above, stability is very valuable and the maintenance costs are worth it.

Depending on the area you live you your property value also increases over time (I like in the SF Bay area so this is a very acute effect.) Your kids down the line will have the most valuable asset to fall back on that provides shelter, rent value (passive income), and that stability and peace of mind. The US having long-term fixed loan rates also helps immensely with payments.

3 Likes

All this talk about home ownership (which I love) has got me thinking about inheritance laws. A truly fascinating field, it’s literally just about blood right.

Due to a fairly unique combination of family circumstances, I would’ve been double fucked if I hadn’t taken steps to protect myself.

It’s an easy thing to forget, both for the inheritor and those leaving the inheritance. To many people, it’s all very cut and dry. It requires financial literacy and forethought to even be aware of the potential for any complications. But before you know it, 75% of your inheritance will be going to some schmuck that you’ve never met and/or may not even be related to at all.

4 Likes

Any inheritance intentions should be planned with an estate lawyer to make sure the inheritors wishes will be carried out in full.

Anecdotal example: A family friend was looking to leave inheritance to their niece and the nieces children. Everything was set for a long time with that understanding but until they visited an estate lawyer, they did not realize that due to the wording the nieces spouse was completely cut out and if something happened to the niece the money would go into a trust until the children turned 18, not allowing the spouse to use it at all even for child expenses until then. This was not what our friend intended and after getting all relevant documents in order had it corrected to their specific wants.

10 Likes

Absolutely, and a great example.

Setting up a will here is about $1000 on average, and it involves talking to a lawyer, which to the typical lower middle-classer is like having to go to the urologist. The consequences of not doing so can be enormous though.

2 Likes

Sounds inexpensive! Here the going rate is like $3k and somehow my work offers it for free

That’s a nice perk! :nice:

1 Like

Yeah true! The health insurance is no bueno but the legal coverage is good. A full trust for free. Best lawyers in the world? Prob not but for a trust :man_shrugging:t2:

2 Likes

At a previous employer I had the MetLife legal group plan which was great. Basically anything for $75 copay and it was like $15 a month premium. I miss that lol

2 Likes

Yeah sorry I guess we pay $22 a month but well worth it

Happy Tuesday all!

Thought I would include some information here on the concept of Financial Independence. Financial Independence (FI) is the point where you have enough money to cover your expenses without working a job. It can be intimidating because it’s often a larger number, but for some can be motivating as it gives you something to work towards. Definitely some psychology at play there, your mileage may vary.

This is just high level information, but will hopefully be helpful.

Another disclaimer, the biggest thing about personal finance is to understand and control your spending, and invest for your future. This FI number is something fun to learn about and calculate, but don’t get married to it. Getting in a good financial mindset is more important that finding out a number, especially if you’re young and have questions marks in your life like where you want to live, if you’ll have kids, etc.

The first step in calculating your financial independence (FI) number is to know your annual expenses. This includes things like housing, food, healthcare, pokemon spending, travel, and pokemon spending. It’s important to note that some of these are going to be estimates, and that’s ok. It’s recommended to revisit your FI number, and things often change throughout life, and what expenses may accompany those changes.

You can calculate your annual expenses using credit card statements, bank statements, going through receipts if you’re old school, whichever works for you. I’m a credit card user, so find it most helpful using my statements.

Once you know your annual expenses, you can get to your FI number pretty easily using a rule of thumb called the 4% rule. According to Investopedia:

The 4% rule for retirement budgeting suggests that a retiree should be able to withdraw 4% of the balance in their retirement account(s) in the first year after retiring, and then withdraw the same dollar amount, adjusted for inflation, every year thereafter for approximately 30 years.

So for example, if you determined you had $50,000 of annual expenses, you could get a FI number by dividing $50,000/.04=$1,250,000. Pretty simple!

But, what if you want to retire earlier? Some recommend using 3% instead of 4% for a more conservative estimate. And what if you think that number sounds too high? Some prefer to use the 5% rule. To illustrate the differences, here’s what they all come out to:

3% rule: $50,000/0.03 = $1,666,667
4% rule: $50,000/0.04 = $1,250,000
5% rule: $50,000/0.05 = $1,000,000

As mentioned, these are estimates, and will vary based on your individual expenses. $50,000/year was used for the example here.

So, what does everyone think about the FI number, 4% rule, or related topics? Is it a helpful way marker for retirements savings? Is it an arbitrary number that does more harm than good? Is the 4% rule outdated? If anyone has any questions, please ask and I’m sure either I or someone else will be happy to chime in!

15 Likes


My response to financial retirement is currently this mood, but I really appreciate the information for discussion because Id like to change that.

5 Likes

You are not alone Lyle! Most people don’t like talking about retirement.

Different topic, but automating things as much as possible so you don’t have to think about it is often the best strategy.

7 Likes

This is exactly why I just automatically take a cut off the top of my paycheck monthly straight into retirement funds without even seeing it happen. It’s not a sexy process, but slow and steady over 30+ years is proven to do wonders.

4 Likes

Tip 1 - Try to ensure you are atleast making concious decisions when it comes to personal finance decisions rather then what everyone else is doing, if its the default option, if its “easiest/more simple”. A good example is in the UK our pension system poorly performs against the likes of America, mainly for the reason they are all overweight in Bonds, UK markets ( which have performed poorly for 20 years). It took me a few days of research to change all of my pensions to global world index trackers at low expense ratios and the pensions are now performing significantly better. This simple bit of work over a few days will likely atleast double my retirement income in 30 years time. My dads pension for example did just 1.5% return in a year with sky high pension account fees, poor default investments, all because its the default option, the default schemes are truly aweful and the government themselves are working to see how to sort the entire industry out as a whole. My point remains though - dont just go with the default option and atleast conciously look at where your money is going.

Tip 2 - Try not to disproportionally focus on non value generating financial choices/tasks. The biggest one these days for young people in my opinion being the side hustle culture we are in today. Theres nothing wrong with true side hustles where its things you enjoy, and could later pay off and become full time etc. The problem is I know many many people who only with a bit of additional training/a bit of confidence could hop to another better 9-5 job then the one they are in for 10-15% more salary for not much more work ( if any) which completely blows the side hustle out the water (both in risk, time spent, total return). Yet every youtube, instagram reel is telling you to pack your 9-5 in and focus on your side hustle ( most of which is just generic rubbish that will not pay of for 95% of people). Ignore the noise and get the easy wins out the way first, optimise what you do currently before taking on additional hustles as you just end up burning out. Another example was me becoming a qualified accountant and getting a significant pay jump after packing my “side hustle” aside in my 20s and that pay jump more then covers what i lost, and guess what, i can now “side hustle” again in my spare time.

Tip 3 - Dont over analysis small spend decisions - a £3/$5 dollar coffee a few times a week is not going to kill you, some of the best ideas and times ive recharged to get back into things has been stepping away for a quick break with that coffee! We live in an era where people on this forum can with their skills, effectively source cards raw, grade and make multiple 100s on a single card if they really tried too, so whats removing a $5 dollar coffee going to do?

Tip 4 - Like the first post, ensure you are not risking fundamentals first, i.e your home, basic savings, things you could do with such as a functioning car, I see many young guys who completely disproportionally go in hard on things in the hopes of winning big. All you are doing is risking being in the position of having to firesale when you actually need to buy a house, lose your job and have no savings etc. How many of us watch a buyer POV, vendor POV of a card show and think, i wonder what job this guy has to have a $50,000-$250k collection/stall, or purchases a $1.5k moonbreon? Do they have savings? do they have their retirement plans setup? do they own a home?

6 Likes

If you ask the boomer generation, this will allow you to buy a house, haha.
It’s more of a meme, but I do see people that go further into credit card debt by swiping for that $5 coffee. I know it’s not a lot, but it is frustrating to see. They complain they are in debt, when frugal people make their own coffee at home and don’t have any debt

12 Likes

Different topic, but automating things as much as possible so you don’t have to think about it is often the best strategy.

This is exactly why I just automatically take a cut off the top of my paycheck monthly straight into retirement funds without even seeing it happen. It’s not a sexy process, but slow and steady over 30+ years is proven to do wonders.

+1
Automation also declutters the mind (or it did for me, at least). No more over-checking your account, no more over-analysing allocation of your remaining discretionary income. You know that your future security is being taken care of in the background. If there’s a bit left over at the end of the month, awesome, treat yourself or chuck it in your investment account.

3 Likes

^This
The whole “coffee and Netflix” thing was taken out of context and laughed-down as an out-of-touch boomer meme. The original context is about the mindset of much of the millennial generation; our proclivity for debt, instant gratification and poor prioritisation of income - then tendency to play the generational victim. But yes agree with your point @2007jasdip about not over-analysing every little spend, assuming the fundamentals are already taken care of. It’s too much hassle for the mind!

5 Likes