Most difficult card to authenticate? The mysterious case of Jumbo Shadow Lugia

[tval]

I would assume that the 4 variants differ in ink patterns on the micro scale given we see differences on the macro scale

Unless instead you are saying something along the lines of “regardless of what the macro pattern is per variant, all of the cards should be printed using the same method that will leave a common identifiable pattern of some kind on the micro scale” - which I could see as a valid hypothesis.

Do I (and others) can pile on to your idea - can we standardize what were looking for? Like is that image above the ‘N’ in the top “Pokemon” text on the back I assume? Or is it a different letter?

For other reading this here’s a visual that explains what print angles are:

[packyman]

I was just throwing out the idea as another data point to look at. I don’t have many ideas on these unfortunately. It seems so niche I doubt someone would fake them, they may have just been produced in multiple locations and grading companies are wrong.

On the back the “n” in Pokemon is the best spot. On the front anywhere you can see magenta ( red ) ink is best so we can see if it angles up or down.

[tval]

got it, i’ll see if i can throw some software together that actually measures it

I agree that it’s a strange card to fake, but the fact that all primary sources point to Variant 1 is still concerning. Also all other ex cards from the same era don’t have differences like this so the “printed in multiple locations” theory as a reason for diffs is hurt a bit by the fact that we don’t see this in other cards

[packyman]

No software needed, just close up pictures. It’s easy to spot with the eye.

[tval]

Here’s the angle of the magenta on the back of mine

and right above the N in the blue space here’s the zoomed in grid

[Nightvulture]

This copy shows yellow at 0 if im seeing it right, cyan at -15. Didnt realize yall had started on it already👍

[tval]

All right everyone more interesting news. Found Event #6: IGN Live in Anaheim, CA on October 22-23, 2005

The way I found this one was by searching the old Pojo forums while hunting for more data on confirming that the card truly was given out at E3 2006 on May 9th, 2006 when I found this post alluding to “some California convention“

However, I was surprised when I found this other post where a user said

they were given out (for the first time) during a 4-hour period at the XD Launch event @ Nintendo World, but then again soon after at the IGN event in California

but this was on Nov 17th, 2005 - well before E3 2006. I found this pretty strange and looked for which IGN events took place in California between Oct 2nd, 2005 (Event 1) and the Nov 17th post and came across IGN Live 2005.

I dug around on the wayback machine and eventually found this page below which 100% confirms they were given out at this event where it says

FREE oversized Dark Lugia Promo card!

I still haven’t found an image of the card to confirm which variant it is, and I still haven’t found corroborating evidence that the E3 2006 event actually handed them out (not sure if they are both real or if someone mixed up the events) but every other day the rabbit hole on this card reveals something new that contradicts Bulbapedia’s record of it that has been posted since 2011.

[hunta1]

Someone just listed a mint copy and they say it’s the real version from the E3 event.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/236740846161

[tval]

I just reached out. Will see what they say. There were tons of ebay posts on worthpoint over the years that said it was from 2006 so just want to check that the seller got it themselves rather than just copy and pasting a description. will let you all know!

For those seeing this - if real it would imply that:

1). The 2006 E3 distribution was in fact real and that the IGN Live 2005 distro was not mixed up with it over the years but rather a distinct event bringing the total truly to 6

2). Variant 1 was handed out at the 2006 E3 event, continuing to put the other variants in question

[tval]

to follow up on this I obtained zoomed in photos from this seller and can confirm that this just a good fake that is caught when you see the small TM text is too blurry. After 3-4 rounds for asking for clearer photos they said this was the most accurate they could give so I wouldn’t write this off as ‘camera issue’. I think PSA was correct in calling this one a fake and that that actually says nothing to the Variant 2 cards that have super clear crisp text even when zoomed in

and can compare that to these other variant 2 cards which are not blurry below. So if Variant 2 is not real then it just means there are bad fakes, good fakes, and insanely good fakes. But i don’t think this eBay listing above teaches us anything new unfortunately

[tval]

Latest news (that puts another interesting spin on this). I reached out the seller of this eBay listing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/358420902967 and asked if they were the original owner of the card. They seem to be a reputable seller with only good reviews so if there’s were fake I would assume that it would be like 99% of cases where it’s because they got it secondhand in 2005-2010 and then truly didn’t know.

This card is Variant 2 as you can tell by the lack of the white spec and the double bolding (+ honestly all the other nuanced differences shown in my earlier analysis). Their response was:

I am the original owner! It’s from an event I went to back as a kid!!

to which my interest immediately piqued. Did we finally find proof of Variant 2? I said there were multiple events and they said

New York in October 2005 I remember this because it was for my birthday on the Nintendo world store launching!

so this was odd to me. It was odd to me because:

1. The image that PokeGym admin PokePop posted on the exact day of the Oct. 2005 release was of Variant 1
2. Another eBay seller with Variant 1 (ig-yugibao) who sold 3 of these (Certs 71294671, 71294672, and 71294673) said they got all of theirs at Pokemon Center (likely meant Nintendo World as it transitioned earlier that year).

I asked for more details and they said:

[…] my memory isn’t as good as it used to be […]

I then explained that I also had a card that looked just like theirs and mentioned why I was asking. I highlighted the 4 variants and how I was trying to find original owners that could provide proof to help close the mystery but the seller got a bit defensive (perhaps understandably):

Lmao I know this card is real man I got it in person in NY with my parents who also are aware of that so I don’t need it checked out or need you to verify, when I sell it it’s got an authentication guarantee so they’ll literally tell you it’s real before it even gets to you, I’m not worried that this is fake because I know without a doubt in my mind that this is real since i got it from a Pokemon store employee and they’re not giving out fakes idc […] lol I saw this myself it happened to me and I got it authenticity backed up so if you want to go through all that I wish you the best of luck!

I told them I believed them since I wanted to lower the temperature of the chat a bit and just mentioned that they could help solve a 21 year old mystery. They said that was cool and all but they don’t want to be involved and understandably just want to sell their card so the conversation ended.

So there’s basically 3 potential scenarios here that are worth looking into:

1. eBay seller is lying or doesn’t remember correctly - I am inclined to believe them. They have a long track record of sales with no issues so seems odd. But for the purpose of this thread and to not spread misinformation I still technically have to lay this out on the table. If it weren’t for the 2 odd prior data points mentioned above I would probably have ruled the October 2nd, 2005 release as a Variant 2 release. but I find the situation still full of a bit of mystery
2. eBay seller is telling the truth and Nintendo World distributed 2 different variants that day - also possible. Though the oddity here is that we need to remember that there isn;t a ‘spectrum’ of Shadow Lugia cards going between Variant 1 and Variant 2 fluidly. It’s either Variant 2’s exact speck pattern + boldness + yellow “Pokemon” logo color + other diffs vs Variant 1’s diffs. And no other ex era card has been found to have the patterns of Variants 2-4 while Variant 1 is a consistent pattern in practically every psychic basic ex era card. So this would mean Pokemon deliberately had 2 different batches with slightly differing art assets printed but then collected and handed out at the same event. It would have been more believable if Variant 2 was at it’s own event in a different part of the country/world at a different time.
3. eBay seller is telling the truth and Nintendo World DID NOT distribute 2 different variants that day (the prior eBay seller, ig-yugibao, was mistaken and the PokePop image was an ad scan of Variant 1 as a general image and not a photo of an actual card handed out) - this one feels more consistent with “one event, one variant” but so many other things would have had to line up which feels unlikely. Here PokePop says that the ad for it had no mention of the jumbo card so it doesn’t seem right that there would just be an ad image asset online available outside of a scan. And the photo he posted isn’t perfectly cropped so it feels like it likely was a scan.

The only one we have 100% proof with photos of is that Variant 1 was given out in Houston 2006. Everything else is a game of telephone. This info today doesn’t really close a door, but rather re-opens one, by putting back into question what was handed out at the very original event #1.

Just need the community to keep poking around and finding people who were at Nintendo World on October 2nd, 2005 from 2-6pm. Not an easy task.

[tval]

I got in contact with a competitive TCG player that attended the Oct 2nd, 2005 premier (to play the TCG, not demo the game) and got 80 copies when he was there. He still has 10 but said it may take him a while to find them.

Hoping he can settle whether Variant 1 vs 2 vs both were there.

He also gave me a contact of someone who went to the 2nd event at IGN Live. So hoping to hear back from them too.

As always i’ll keep this community posted. If they turn up with some data we may be closing Variants 1, 2, & 4 soon-ish. but as it stands today still only Variant 1 is considered 100% safe until i prove further info

[LuisOlmos]

Hello, I hope you are well! I actually recently purchased this card from Ebay. Wanted to say this article is great, I got lucky I think as my card checks all 3 from variant 1 (have attached scans from my home printer, please excuse some of the dirt/black specs, I know quality won’t be the best but I tried). Very cool that you are doing this, never would have thought there would be good fakes of this card. Ebay also sent me an authenticity card, but I am not sure if that even matters as you have pointed out that they use PSA’s system. I know my copy is not really the mintiest with some chip damage and whitening but hope that helps. I did measure and it measures to 5.75 x 8 inches which I know above there were two different sizes which was fascinating. I wish I found this prior to purchasing as I would have asked the seller some more questions, but all in all they were nice. Again, sorry if this does not really help but just wanted to say good work!

Shadow Lugia Scan.PDF (725.6 KB)

[Paulkemon]

Scanning on your printer is awesome lol

Also welcome to the forum! This place is a breadth of knowledge, so you’re sure to find information about most things you are looking for!

Glad to have you

[bbobrob]

Just saw a random listing for the Corocoro Shadow Lugia, and even though it’s a different language, I feel like it would be odd to change up the printing significantly for an international release. All the Corocoro Shadow Lugia’s have the white dot next to “Developed” like variant 1. Just another point to add, in case it’s useful. You can see the search for Shadow Lugia on Mercari below or I’ll post an example here.

ダークルギア コロコロ限定 ジャンボカード ポケモンカードの中古/未使用品