Low Psa grade VS Authentic grade for high value cards

[pfm]

@gottaketchumall

Just to add further to my point @smpratte I think authentic only has an inherent problem comparing to raw as the card becomes encapsulated and therefore condition becomes objectively harder to grade. We have been talking a lot about opinion and subjective matters, but that is again an objective emotionless fact. You just cannot judge condition of a card nearly as well when encased in it’s plastic tomb. You just can’t always tell exactly what they case may be hiding on an edge and is that a hair or a dirt spec or a ink stain etc. If however I see that card is a PSA 6 inside it’s tomb I can make some better judgements and assumptions about what I am looking at. That is a point I was trying to make before that I probably failed at doing so. It is honorable of you to take your position on a corner crease-d trohpy kang but an unscrupulous seller may try and move that same authentic trophy kang to an unsuspecting buyer as a potentially mint sample. I think arguing for going the authentic only route on the basis that PSA could miss it is weak personally and not a strong argument against just putting their grade on that slab.

@pfm I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the matter.

“It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it.” -Joseph Joubert

This is a fair point, albeit probably not something you’d see in reality because the type of cards that get authentic only probably have very visible issues. But for the sake of argument, let’s go with this.

I mean, if the damage is so subtle that the case obscures it and you never plan on taking it out the case, does it really matter then? You may be being lied to in a way, but if you never find out and if the card brings you happiness does it really matter in the end? I realize that this argument might not work for everyone but it’s something to consider nonetheless.

But if we’re talking about the ethics of selling an authentic card to obscure damage, the truth is that no authentic card would (or should at least) net more than the value of a PSA 6. Paying a PSA 9 price for an Authentic is foolish. Just as reina said, someone decided to send that card in as authentic meaning someone made the conscious choice not to put a grade on it.

Overall, there are certainly things to be very mindful when it comes to dealing with Authentic cards but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t exist.

[pfm]

@gottaketchumall

It is something I would never do and it definitely could be used in instances to try and obscure potential issues a card may have. If I were in the market to buy this card for example it is just such a more difficult process from the onset than if the original submitter just didn’t go out of their way to opt for that “authentic only” designation. Even if it were in my hands I couldn’t properly scrutinize it for what it is.

If you’re in the market for a >$50,000 card, you should probably take the time and go though the difficult process even if it has a grade. Would you buy the card as a 5 without any additional pictures? There’s lots of ways to make a 5.

[fazool]

it’s kind of a tough situation. Like Scott said he authenticated his Trophy Khan because of the incredibly light pressure mark that is easily missed. But Scott is basically the most upstanding pokemon collector and disclosed this everywhere including his sales page in a very transparent and visible way.

The problem comes in not disclosing that with cards that are otherwise in extremely good condition. I have a PSA 7 No. 1 trainer from 1998. It is in amazing condition besides a very similar mark that can only be seen when tilting under strong light. if I authenticated it instead it would be very hard to see this as it is extremely small and even worse along the red line on the back for the card. extremely easy to miss. If I for some reason were to sell it in an authentic state and not say anything about that small and easy to miss mark making it a 7 I think that would be extremely unethical and harmful.

Now I don’t know and don’t think there has ever been a case where something like this has happened because many collectors now take their time to do research or talk to an expert like Scott before making a major purchase. but as more and more people come into the hobby and bring lots of new money, it is something to worry about it.

[KingPokemon]

For some of the reasons stated above I pregraded this authentic set and wrote my opinion on them. I wanted to know what their true condition was lest I forget. If I ever sold them it may not satisfy some but most would be thankful to know their condition.

[fazool]

man that’s exactly what I would like Gary haha

[KingPokemon]

@fazool

man that’s exactly what I would like Gary haha

I’ve never cracked and re sent in a card but maybe in this instance it would be smart. Years ago when I did these a “6+” Blastoise or a “7” Ninetales weren’t worth very much. I was just doing this for fun and to have the first ever authentic labeled Pokemon card. But now there’s quite a value increase so maybe I should?

[missingno]

@pfm

@gottaketchumall

I’ll take door number 3. Buy the card AND consider the grade.

The grade serves as a baseline professional opinion allowing the card to be pegged usually very near to it’s “true” grade. In some cases a buyer may have a question on a photo or scan of "what is that X in Y position? A crease/dent/scratch/hair/dust etc? Knowing the grade vs just having an authentic labeled card can tell you many times or at least lend a hint. Would anyone want to buy Masaki promo authentic? Surely they would just be cards that were 6’s in a prior case with those micro creases that most can’t spot in person let alone through a case in a digital photo.

Sure the grade isn’t the end all be all as there are weaks/strongs etc. but the PSA grade just answers a lot of questions off the bat that a photo/scan just cannot do. On top of that, PSA has that awesome financial guarantee of grade an authenticity which will reimburse you to market value for any card lacking to their standards. So in many situations you can actually blindly buy the grade and in the event you actually get a card that is not only “weak” but actually lacking to PSA’s guidelines they will regrade it and make you whole for the loss of any market value. I have blindly bought cards knowing this fact. I have blindly bought entire PSA graded 9 sets without a photo of a single card. I could not do that with authentic labels. I can and would blindly buy any card given it’s PSA grade. Sure, seeing the card in some situations I can move up from there if its a better than average example, it’s just PSA is around for a purpose I think if we are sending our cards to them anyways we may as well get their expert opinion.

I am just not a big fan personally of the reasons I see people advocating for authentic designation. It seems to be either a case of a broken ego on having a low grade in one’s collection or people with the “eww but my OCD can’t handle it” which I think are the two biggest reasons people have supported authentic labels. Just be like @pokemonsyndicate and photoshop your BGS 9.5’s to BGS 10’s if it makes you feel better. ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°) You can then even print out that label on a sticker and put it right on the case.

Here is a summary of your arguments against authentic cards:

1. Costs same, same turnaround time as just getting the grade
2. Get loads of questions about condition
3. Don’t try to fool people by not displaying a grade
4. Grade is an indicator of condition
5. Grade is guaranteed by PSA

2 through 5 are also arguments against ungraded cards. By your argument, no one should ever bother buying selling or trading ungraded cards, yet many people successful do so every day.

If I say I want the protection and professional look of a PSA case then the costs and time are justified and 1) is not a valid argument against the authentic label. If you want to get your whole LP unlimited fossil set authenticated, I’d also be arguing that it’s not worth the time/effort. But this thread is asking about things like 1st ed zards or trophy cards where even just owning a copy is a not trivial.

So unless you agree that ungraded cards are a complete waste of time your arguments are not very strong.

You also criticize the ego and “ocd” tendencies of people who collect authentic cards which is so terribly ironic it hurts me. Literally by getting a full authentic set you’re saying that you just really like the cards and don’t mind the condition too much. You also don’t care if the set is heterogeneous in condition. This is the most modest and least ocd method of collecting I can possibly think of. How can you possibly say that this form of collecting is filled with ego and perfectionism but then be silent toward the people who strive to only collect full sets of 10?

Also even if I were to agree that the motive of collecting authentic cards was all ego and ocd tendencies, is that not what drives the entire collecting market as a whole? Why is it okay to have an ego about some things but not others?

OCD doesn’t always mean strive for perfection. It could very well mean all 10’s but one has a nick so it’s not satisfying or all 1’s so they’re satisfying. If that makes any sense. I don’t think people know the difference between someone with OCD and a perfectionist. If I had a set with cards in acceptable condition that makes my OCD settle, as long as I per-say get them all authenticated at the same time. Or let’s say I get them all graded and they’re all 10’s except for one. That one is in my opinion, in better condition, then I’d crack them all open and not send them in again because the whole process pisses me off. It’s somewhat of a ritual. I’d rather have all of them safely at home, then in some other state either way. It’s very difficult to explain an OCD condition. It’s like don’t trigger something for no reason.

[pumpkins]

If the card is part of a set that will have mismatched low grades, I’d prefer the Authentic designation. I just think it’s a cleaner look when displayed together since they’ll all match. But if we’re talking about single one off cards then a numerical grade every time.