@needszeebs , Trust me, I know. I don’t miss being bullied for liking Pokemon in middle school (though I certainly pride myself on never giving a fuck and never giving in to those worthless pieces of shit), and I don’t miss all the stupid crap people said about it even as late as in junior high.
I miss how, when I re-entered the tcg in late 2009/early 2010 ish after a nearly two year long break (my only true break except for a few months in 2003), no-one cared. Pokemon was just a hobby. No witchhunt, no mass euphoria, it was just a hobby. This was also before twitch strippers, youtubers and cosplayers had turned the “nerd-culture” concept into something hip and even encouraged, so you didn’t have the whole circus surrounding it like you do now.
Yes.
Just like there is divide between old and new fans of any sports
Just like there is divide between old and new fans of a movie or TV show
Just like there is divide between old and new people in religions
If you just ignore any argument or rhetoric around how one is better than the other, and talk to people from both camps who are here to have a good time and help each other then you have a much better time.
I think the reality that most people are afraid to admit is that communities don’t have to be inviting to everyone.
There is a common assumption that there is something “wrong” with a community if new members don’t feel welcomed. However, if you subtract emotion from the issue, this is just not something that should be expected at all. Should a country club be accepting of all new people that want to join? Should an addiction counselling group just happily invite dozens of people who don’t have an addiction? Should a professional association of doctors welcome non-doctors?
While I’d prefer if e4 was inviting to all collectors, the reality is that there are certain people who are a good fit for this community and there are plenty of people who are not. The members of E4 skew towards older and more experienced collectors which is why this line is often drawn between “old” and “new” collectors when this topic is brought up. In reality, it’s not being a new collector that makes someone an awkward fit for this forum, it’s more about a certain mentality or level of blatant inexperience that sticks out. Literally everyone here was new at one point and there are plenty of new members that fit perfectly in the community right away because they don’t have this trait.
Complaining that E4 is unwelcoming to new collectors is just as insignificant to me as complaining that Pokemon reddit communities are not engaging enough to me as an experienced collector. They are different communities with different cultures and expectations and it’s absurd to think the community should change to match your expectations.
And while I acknowledge that there can be an unnecessary degree of toxicity on here sometimes, the problem is that it is usually from an established member who is more often than not correct in what they are saying while being too harsh. As mods, we can’t control everything people to say without imposing draconian levels of moderation which may be even more toxic to this community than the problem trying to be solved.
The last thing I want to mention is this is not even close to being exclusive to pokemon. Go to any serious community in any hobby and they will all be unwelcoming and harsh to specific characteristics of new hobbyists. It’s just the nature of participating in a community of experienced people.
Many of the groups you mentioned in comparison involve some sort of barrier to entry. Addiction counselling inviting non-addicts in signifies that you would have to still in some sense be invited in. That, and the purpose of addiction counselling is coping with addiction, there’s no reason for non-addicts to attend. Doctors also have to become doctors to be a part of a doctors association; being an educated, licensed physician is the barrier for entry. E4 is a collectors forum for collectors-- what is the barrier of entry for a collector? Buying some packs from Walmart? How do you qualify a “serious collector?” Perhaps E4 is too accessible? What kind of barrier for entry could be implemented hypothetically?
It’s true though, no community is obligated to welcome anyone in. I would say the implication that most people get is that collectors are welcome, which is where the confusion arises. I guess the explanation is that there is a disconnect between expectations and the actuality of the community. It’s absolutely fair that this is for the experienced collector of a certain mentality… As I previously mentioned, there was a ton of YouTubers plugging E4 over the past year, perhaps people got the wrong impression from the way it was portrayed elsewhere? I don’t think it is the responsibility of mods to police everyone’s behaviour. It definitely makes sense to me why this ends up happening.
The affability of this forum is exemplified by this post. Three major moderators, several longtime members and the forum’s founder have chimed in and gave their two cents. If that isn’t welcoming, I’m not sure what is.
Honestly I don’t have a problem with new collectors, I have a problem with people who do the least amount of effort into research and expect everyone else to do the work of researching. There are so many posts on reddit with “What’s this worth?”. I wouldn’t mind someone coming and going “How do I find out how much a card is worth?” as much.
I collected back in the day but unfortunately my collection got destroyed by teething puppies. I honestly only got back into it because I had recurring dreams where I found some untouched cards stashed away in my room.
Old collectors got their Charizard for 50, new collectors for 500.
Old collectors got their Base boosterbox for 100, new collectors for 10K.
Serious Pokemon collectors try to get XX sets, or XX pokemon or whatever you like to get together.
Everybody asking "how fast can I turn XX card I can buy for 10 into 100, is a serious collector of money (and not of Pokemon)
Does it really matter how long a person is collecting? The only advantage I have is I own a lot of things I bought at the release/earned at tournaments long long ago. Does that make me a “better” collector? I doubt it.
I just own a bit more than others.
To share some more thoughts: Yes, there is absolutely a vast, huge, almost immeasurable divide between those with 7-8 figure collections spending tens of thousands a month and people just getting into it with barely any money to spend being told to either make near mint binders of cards they don’t like or shut it.
The “problem” (not really but you know what I mean) is that E4 wants to be a collectors forum, but not strictly a wealthy collectors forum. But then you literally get people with ALL kinds of socioeconomic situations going on and, as you’d expect, this is a constant source of friction. This goes way beyond Pokemon and way beyond E4. Without going into politics, this is a result of the internet age, this illusion of fellowship through the mock obliteration of social division.
All-in-all, I think the people here (on all sides) do an impressively decent job of dealing with that, although there are certain repeat behaviors, intensifying during hype periods, that I think we could do without, as I mention in the thread Enigma linked to.
this is me just showing my 2nd fav Charizonkers card
Jokes a side I’m personally here just to share my piece of the hobby and look at other people collections. I’ve been lately more impressed that if someone is able to get their chase card. What comes to new vs old collectors, I mean who cares, just have fun and collect what you like, isn’t that in the end the point of collecting?
I think this forum is generally quite welcoming, but there are ways people can be more welcoming. At times, when I was newer to the forum, I tried to civilly engage with people, only for someone to dismiss what I was saying because my account was registered recently. That, in my view, is toxic.
If someone comes onto this forum and is clearly engaging in good faith, they should be treated respectfully. It’s fine to harshly dismiss a bad idea/argument, but it’s another thing to engage in ad hominem attacks. While the vast majority of people have been kind and helpful, a few have been deliberately antagonistic and uncivil. This forum would be a better place without such people.
I’ve really enjoyed reading through the replies to this thread, I appreciate everyone who has taken the time to read through and leave a post. It has definitely given me some insight into the culture here on E4 and helped me understand the people a little bit more. I feel like my viewpoint on the situation has changed given the context that some older members have provided
Personally I think all the people who started collecting before me are kind of weird and don’t get me started about the people who started collecting after me.
I’m actually coming up on my 1 year anniversary of collecting so that’s fun. I First started because of the stonk aspect I saw on youtube but also because I’ve always loved pokemon and I thought i could get some money out of it. I started out as envious of the older collectors because of the sheer amount of rare cards and money they had laying around and as a 20 year old college student that really gets to you. After flipping a bit and learning as much as I could I started to really appreciate the cards however. Now I collect cards that were released before I was born and I love it. I still look at the money aspect don’t get me wrong, but now it’s more of what I should get now so I don’t pay 10x in the future. I look to the past and respect the older collectors because without them, this hobby wouldn’t even exist and I aspire to be like them. People who are able to spend a decade doing something and still enjoy it are awesome in my book.
hope this gave a little insight from one of the newer people!
Let’s say you’re first to market and have completed 50% of your goals by Oct 2020. Now you’re priced out and may not be able to ever fully complete your goals. However, the cards that you do own have increased in value exponentially to the point where it may even be life changing money in some instances. Not a bad consollation prize for not being able to complete your goals.
