# Is signature order important for Japanese autos? **URL:** \ **Category:** General\ **Tags:** autograph, authenticity\ **Created:** [March 14, 2024, 6:37am UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/is-signature-order-important-for-japanese-autos/47096 "2024-03-14T06:37:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![tokyopokemon](https://efour-storage.b-cdn.net/avatars/avatar-default.png) [@tokyopokemon](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/tokyopokemon)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 6:01am UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/is-signature-order-important-for-japanese-autos/47096/1 "2024-03-14T06:01:35Z")
> Note: this thread is split off from a discussion that happened here: [Autograph Forging and Photoshopping Provenance - Antonio Moscato aka Venustoise aka Shiny\_Hunter23](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/autograph-forging-and-photoshopping-provenance-antonio-moscato-aka-venustoise-aka-shiny-hunter23/47050/) Just watchout. That kanji could be just be a Japanese national with bad hand writhing. Shodo experts may think it looks horrible, but the average Japanese national may think that is a japanese actually handwriting. Japanese nationals can usually tell a foreigner writing in japanese. BEST YOU all ask a Japanese national without context or back story. Most likely they will tell you that is a Japanese writing it. Stroke order is very important in Shodo or traditional writhing. But like USA younger generation that cannot even write cursive. It is just bad handwriting. I also believe it is FAKE, but just be cautious when dealing with NON JAPANESE videos trying to explain JAPANESE things. Not only Pokemon, everything and anything Japanese. ---
**Author:** ![Keishara](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/keishara/32/96557_2.png) [@Keishara](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/Keishara)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 6:37am UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/is-signature-order-important-for-japanese-autos/47096/2 "2024-03-14T06:37:35Z")
Noone in Japan will think this is a national’s handwriting - it wouldn’t pass as bad handwriting. It shows a complete lack of understanding of how the writing system works. The person would have to be illiterate, even then a national would’ve seen enough kanji to understand to a greater degree how the strokes ought to look. As someone who has grown up with kanji (Japanese resident, N1, Japanese / Chinese fluency), I’ve seen my share of bad handwriting from my classmates back in school, they might be scruffy, but there exists principles and everything is flouted in these examples. Some of the katakana aren’t even real, they appear to be random shapes. ---
**Author:** ![nikhil](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/nikhil/32/222563_2.png) [@nikhil](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/nikhil)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 7:31am UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/is-signature-order-important-for-japanese-autos/47096/3 "2024-03-14T07:31:44Z")
I’ve also studied Japanese here in the US and you can make kanji look right in general with the wrong stroke order, but you can almost always tell it’s the wrong stroke order. Things don’t look right. Even if you don’t follow it properly similar to how kids write letters differently, kanji is too complex and uniformed for you to NOT see abnormalities. ---
**Author:** ![joponnes](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/joponnes/32/267759_2.png) [@joponnes](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/joponnes)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 12:49pm UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/is-signature-order-important-for-japanese-autos/47096/4 "2024-03-14T12:49:37Z")
No matter what it could be these are pokemon artists signing their names, not any kinds of youngsters with potential bad hand writing ---
**Author:** ![pfm](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/pfm/32/254328_2.png) [@pfm](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/pfm)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 1:04pm UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/is-signature-order-important-for-japanese-autos/47096/5 "2024-03-14T13:04:20Z")
Stroke order is also important in non-Japanese autographs. The order isn’t necessarily based on what is official, more important is to compare against what the signer has done in the past ---
**Author:** ![tokyopokemon](https://efour-storage.b-cdn.net/avatars/avatar-default.png) [@tokyopokemon](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/tokyopokemon)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 2:26pm UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/is-signature-order-important-for-japanese-autos/47096/6 "2024-03-14T14:26:22Z")
Two Japanese nationals in my family said it could be a Japanese nationals bad handwriting . Everyone is looking at the back story first , of course you have a influenced opinion. Next, many here seem to know about Japanese calligraphy, So you also know there are different levels of Japanese calligraphy like in martial arts kyu/dan etc. An immediate family member has taught Japanese Calligraphy , She said that not all Japanese people know the correct strokes, Family members in our household enjoy watching non japanese youtube influencers talk about Japan cause they always find fun views of Japanese. Many non japanese will think what these non japanese influencers say as truth, but in reality they are just mistakes or lost in translation. Again, I think that signature is fake, but just wanted to post about the reason was wrong. Stroke order is not always the final absolute reason. ---
**Author:** ![swolepoke](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/swolepoke/32/26930_2.png) [@swolepoke](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/swolepoke)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 2:34pm UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/is-signature-order-important-for-japanese-autos/47096/7 "2024-03-14T14:34:34Z")
In the case of Ken Sugimori, and almost every Japanese Pokemon Artist I’ve seen, the stroke order IS an absolute. The stroke order for their kanji has been a consistent factor since day one. From some of Sugimor’s earliest autographs in the early 2000s, to modern example, he has always written his name in the same stroke order. I’ve seen the same with Arita, Harada, Akabane, etc Maybe it’s like you said, where it’s children who aren’t always going to be consistent with cursive, but as an adult, once you have your signature and it’s become ingrained in you for over a long period of time, I don’t see how or why it would ever deviate, even if being lazy. ---
**Author:** ![Keishara](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/keishara/32/96557_2.png) [@Keishara](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/Keishara)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 2:44pm UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/is-signature-order-important-for-japanese-autos/47096/8 "2024-03-14T14:44:20Z")
Stroke order is simply one of many things off about it. ---
**Author:** ![tokyopokemon](https://efour-storage.b-cdn.net/avatars/avatar-default.png) [@tokyopokemon](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/tokyopokemon)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 2:44pm UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/is-signature-order-important-for-japanese-autos/47096/9 "2024-03-14T14:44:44Z")
of course. But the video making a statement that stroke order is the absolute truth to finding a non japanese writing . it is not. Next, to my eyes, there are many nice Japanese Calligraphy on ebay . Family members look at it for a split second and say “that is a foreigner doing it” To me , they are beautiful. The family members are not saying they are bad, they are just not a Japanese artist. Maybe the videos should state that in this case of a personal signature, the artist has never changed stroke,etc etc… The blanket statements make it seem that all Japanese write perfect so any japanese writing with wrong strokes is a non Japanese. Just wanted to post about a Japanese nationals view of the video. No back story to fog the opinion. again, of course those sigs are fake. ---
**Author:** ![pfm](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/pfm/32/254328_2.png) [@pfm](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/pfm)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 2:47pm UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/is-signature-order-important-for-japanese-autos/47096/10 "2024-03-14T14:47:44Z")
What video? ---
**Author:** ![tokyopokemon](https://efour-storage.b-cdn.net/avatars/avatar-default.png) [@tokyopokemon](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/tokyopokemon)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 2:49pm UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/is-signature-order-important-for-japanese-autos/47096/11 "2024-03-14T14:49:42Z")
on youtube, that is how i found this thread ---
**Author:** ![gengarbrigade](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/gengarbrigade/32/271700_2.png) [@gengarbrigade](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/gengarbrigade)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 2:56pm UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/is-signature-order-important-for-japanese-autos/47096/12 "2024-03-14T14:56:36Z")
Probably Rattle ---
**Author:** ![pfm](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/pfm/32/254328_2.png) [@pfm](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/pfm)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 3:04pm UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/is-signature-order-important-for-japanese-autos/47096/13 "2024-03-14T15:04:57Z")
I mean this in the most constructive and positive way possible but the video is entirely missing from the context of this conversation [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/-RGefCqpzUk/maxresdefault.jpg "Scammer Photoshops Pokemon Card Being Autographed - Antonio Moscato") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RGefCqpzUk) I’m guessing it’s this one? Perhaps it would be beneficial to write a comment on the video itself ---
**Author:** ![tokyopokemon](https://efour-storage.b-cdn.net/avatars/avatar-default.png) [@tokyopokemon](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/tokyopokemon)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 5:10pm UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/is-signature-order-important-for-japanese-autos/47096/14 "2024-03-14T17:10:39Z")
Serious question. Do any of you members have two signatures? Public and private? Have anyone here signed hundreds if not thousands of autographs in one sitting? For me , i have two signatures. One is my private sig, the second is a public sig. My public sig is more art . BUT i can absolutely tell you the signature changes and after signing many signatures in a sitting. Some times i miss a stroke so at the stroke after finishing. Give yourself a test. sit down and sign your signature a few hundred times in 30 minutes. You will miss strokes and at them after you sign that particular sig. Honestly try it. now do this a few days in a row. It gets sickening, sloppy and different. ---
**Author:** ![fourthstartcg](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/fourthstartcg/32/163893_2.png) [@fourthstartcg](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/fourthstartcg)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 5:25pm UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/is-signature-order-important-for-japanese-autos/47096/15 "2024-03-14T17:25:23Z")
> [@tokyopokemon](#): > > Do any of you members have two signatures? Public and private? > > Have anyone here signed hundreds if not thousands of autographs in one sitting? > > For me , i have two signatures. One is my private sig, the second is a public sig. My public sig is more art . BUT i can absolutely tell you the signature changes and after signing many signatures in a sitting. Some times i miss a stroke so at the stroke after finishing. > > Give yourself a test. sit down and sign your signature a few hundred times in 30 minutes. You will miss strokes and at them after you sign that particular sig. This is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. Part of the reason Pokemon signatures are so valuable is that artists _have never_ done thousands of signatures at once. The most we have ever seen are maybe 300-400 autos over the course of an entire weekend at the Overload signings or Arita events. And the signatures at the start of the event look no different than the ones at the end. I don’t know what the point you’re trying to make here is. ---
**Author:** ![tokyopokemon](https://efour-storage.b-cdn.net/avatars/avatar-default.png) [@tokyopokemon](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/tokyopokemon)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 5:36pm UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/is-signature-order-important-for-japanese-autos/47096/16 "2024-03-14T17:36:31Z")
have you dont public autographing sessions? I can tell you by experience. Travel , time zones, food , venue, country makes a big difference in a persons signature. If anyone thinks a signature is perfect everytime, That would be bad, a autopen can duplicate the autograph perfect. I will leave this thread, everyone has their opinions and thoughts set in stone. **The signature is fake,** but the reasons are not perfect like many are saying. Back to packing my shipments. Good reading here. ---
**Author:** ![smpratte](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/smpratte/32/79511_2.png) [@smpratte](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/smpratte)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 5:37pm UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/is-signature-order-important-for-japanese-autos/47096/17 "2024-03-14T17:37:28Z")
The point that there is variance in autographs is valid. Its just about understanding those variances. We could get into the weeds about how Arita really took a lot of time years ago compared to today, but its a subtle variance. Pokemon artists tend to be pretty consistent compared to athletes or celebs. Mainly because the signing sessions are so regulated, pretty much all the same, tabletop and taking their time. Where you can get some random athlete or celebrity signing something on the street that would vary from a sit down signing event. ---
**Author:** ![swolepoke](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/swolepoke/32/26930_2.png) [@swolepoke](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/swolepoke)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 5:46pm UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/is-signature-order-important-for-japanese-autos/47096/18 "2024-03-14T17:46:46Z")
My signature is my signature lol Whether I’m signing a check, a birthday card, or the form I just signed now for dropping off my car for new brakes, I always write my signature in the **same pen strokes**. Sure there are times when I’m sloppy or it’s rushed, but the way I write my name and the pen stroke order I do it in, never changes. I’m not going to all of a sudden start bottom to top, or right to left, when that’s not what comes naturally to me. My name starts with the letter “J”. I will always write it top to bottom, always. Every native writting English speaking person does. To claim that there could be a variant of my signature out there, where I was too lazy or too sloppy to start top to bottom with the “J”, wouldn’t ever happen. ![Write the letter J | Alphabet Writing lesson for children | The Singing Walrus on Make a GIF](https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-17-2020/FPommW.gif) How we write and our pen strokes we write with are ingrained in us. We can be lazy or sloppy at times, but that doesn’t mean we change that up as a result of it. **Whether you write your signature as clean as possible or as sloppy as possible, you always write in the same stroke order.** ---
**Author:** ![swolepoke](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/swolepoke/32/26930_2.png) [@swolepoke](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/swolepoke)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 5:48pm UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/is-signature-order-important-for-japanese-autos/47096/19 "2024-03-14T17:48:27Z")
@fourthstartcg feel free to lock this thread at any time. The purpose of it wasn’t about the autograph, which is an obvious fake, but about the photoshopped image. This is going off track lol. ---
**Author:** ![fourthstartcg](https://efour.b-cdn.net/user_avatar/www.elitefourum.com/fourthstartcg/32/163893_2.png) [@fourthstartcg](https://www.elitefourum.com/u/fourthstartcg)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 6:35pm UTC](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/is-signature-order-important-for-japanese-autos/47096/21 "2024-03-14T18:35:16Z")
Moved this to a new thread to continue the conversation if people like! [Next page](https://www.elitefourum.com/t/is-signature-order-important-for-japanese-autos/47096.md?page=2)