Being priced out (PSA 10 copies)

Hi as an XY collector trying to get 10s in this climate, I gotta say it really sucks. Unfortunately I believe many of these hard-to-grade cards in a 10 will forever have a much higher ceiling due to all the attention. Very unrealistic for these cards to go anywhere close to pre boom prices.

One way I continue to collect is to get the Japanese version in a 10. I think Japanese is great if it (a) has exclusive artwork/release or (b) the English version is low pop, hard to grade, and extremely desirable.

A good example is the Phantom Forces Gengar EX FA #114 which is stupid expensive (10k+) in PSA 10. The Japanese version was at 1.6k at the time which was a perfect alternative. Sadly it jumped as people got priced out of the EN version.

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So basically you didnt need to write all of that above haha (your 9.5 breakdown is also very, very incorrect).

This is true for ALL grading companies. Some cards get the grades they deserve, others do not.

I have graded many PSA 8s that were undergraded, and made them into BGS 9s.

I have graded many PSA 8s and 9s that were undergraded to BGS 9s and BGS 9.5s

I have also graded several PSA 9s to BGS 9s with 8.5 subgrades, and one PSA 9 to BGS 8.5.

Oh, a buddy also graded a BGS 9 quad 9 to PSA 10 (1st ed holo rocket charizard).

And yes, I also have seen many 9.5s that didn’t deserve the grade “gem mint” - as I have seen many PSA 10s that didn’t deserve it!

Basically, grading is BS and it is a game we all (most of us) play.

I refer to this fun video of someone cracking a “very clean” PSA 10 6xxx shadowless charizard, and it came back a BGS 9.5 with a 9 surface. He then sent it to TAG, and it got a 9. Ouch.

Basically, in grading absolutely nothing is concrete and if you have a good eye and enjoy spending the time looking at loads of cards, you can do quite well value-wise by buying cheaper under-graded cards and using arbitrage to get a value bump.

A PSA 10 is a sliding scale, some are weak 10s, some are in the middle, some are strong. Most people on this forum will agree with that statement. Just because they are all labelled as a “10” does not make them equal.

In my experience, a BGS 9.5 is usually comparable to a PSA 10 IF it does not have a 9 corner. A 9 corner, in most cases, (8 times out of 10) rules it out.

My tldr on crossing BGS 9.5 to PSA 10:

  • 9 edges (probably wont cross)
  • 9 centering (usually a good bet)
  • 9 surface (it can cross if the surface issue is minor (PSA 10s can have minor surface issues))
  • 9 edges (maybe, maybe not - depends on the card. PSA can be more lenient on factory edgewear, especially if it is extremely common and mostly minor, like a rough cutting edge (often seen on shadowless), silvering (e.g jungle holos) or factory whitening like on NEO 4 japanse shinings)
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:index_pointing_up: this. I have friends who are sports card/comic collectors who make great money and the word “ten” doesn’t exist in their vocabulary for vintage desirable items.

Spending thousands on something that looks like it went through the washing machine and being happy about it is commonplace.

Believe it or not, we’ll get there someday. It’ll probably be sooner than we think because it always is.

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I remember you were talking about this nearly a decade ago, and I remember thinking at the time that this would eventually happen, but I couldn’t identify when. Looks like we’re finally approaching this outcome, which I agree is healthier for the longevity of the secondary market.

@xliveandplay - to address your current concerns, being priced out of collection goals is an inherent part of collecting (one of the “joys” of the collecting journey). I would recommend two things for you to consider:

  1. If you truly want to continue pursuing the “Gem mint” condition, you will need to get more creative in accomplishing this goal. Conventional “save money from work” and buy your collecting goals, especially during these market swings, will not be as feasible as before. The most cost effective (but time intensive) option is the viral “trade up challenge” strategy, where you slowly trade your way up to your desired collecting goals. Personally, this is more rewarding to me if you have the time because you are working towards your collection, as opposed to simply throwing money at cardboard.

  2. Secondly, how are you defining “gem mint” condition? I noticed your comment about wanting to collect “gem mint” condition cards but then citing multiple grading companies’ “gem mint” grades. Every grading company has their own standards, and with the inherent biases and inconsistencies that occur, each company’s “gem mint” condition is defined differently. Are you fine with this flexibility for your collection, or do you have specific parameters set for your particular collection?

Hope this helps,
cpbog1

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what does the “scandal” have to do with CGC’s grading service? Wasn’t that an authentication issue?

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You have three options in my opinion:

  • Forget price memory and accept the new market value. [Buy now]

  • Stop chasing conditional rarity and buy a lower grade. [Compromise]

  • Wait it out and pray that prices lower in the future. [Wait & Pray]

Another salient but unspoken point is that OP is a (seemingly) wealthy collector who regularly flexes tens of thousands of dollars worth of graded cards on e4 and IG. To me, OP’s issue is more of a psychological one that concerns price memory (i.e., “I don’t agree with the current market value of XYZ card.”) rather than being “priced out” per se (i.e., “I can no longer afford XYZ card.”).

I think a lot of us (myself included) struggle with both barriers, and especially during booms.

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I have repeated this unpopular opinion before on here: people obsessing with grades care mostly/primarily about the monetary value attached to it. Why do you need a minimum wage worker to tell you what grade a card is? If you can’t determine the condition yourself, then why do you even care what it has been assigned?

A card in a sleeve, binder, toploader, case, even a fake ‘slab’ does the job if it’s really about presentation.

So, really, if things are getting too expensive, just make more money. It’s not the card you’re chasing anyway.

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To help explain how I feel, I need to share a bit about how I function and where I come from.

I’m part of the first Pokémon generation. I was playing Pokémon Blue back in middle school and I absolutely loved the universe, just like I loved Dragon Ball and Zelda. I used to collect Pokémon and Digimon figures. Strangely enough, I never liked Pokémon cards at the time. I felt they were a huge missed opportunity because they could have been so much better. Even though I bought tons of boosters, I ended up throwing everything away. The only card I truly loved was Ancient Mew, which stayed pinned above my bed like a treasure with a giant piece of sticky tack.

I really enjoyed Gen 3 much less. I felt Kyogre, Groudon, and the Regi trio were not as well designed as the previous legendaries. I completely skipped Gen 4. Back then, we found it ridiculous to have so many legendaries and mythicals. Plus, I was growing up and gradually moving away from Pokémon.

I got back into it during Gen 6, which I really liked. Then came Gen 7 and Pokémon GO. Honestly, I thought Pokémon cards didn’t even exist anymore. Around that time, I was focused on hunting and collecting ultra-rare event Pokémon in the games like PCNY event distributions. I still have an incredible digital collection of very rare distributed Pokémon sleeping in Pokémon Home.

Then in early 2022, I started getting interested in the cards again. Somehow, I completely missed the whole Logan Paul wave and the global boom of 2021. I don’t know how I avoided it, but I did. I only discovered it about a year after everyone else. Seeing so much attention being given to a part of the Pokémon world again, which really began with Pokémon GO, made me genuinely happy. I decided to step into this new side of the universe.

One important point is that I live in a non-English-speaking European country, where the card market is mostly focused on non-English cards. At the time, I just wanted to own a piece of Pokémon history, so I looked into the Base Set. My biggest fear was buying fake cards, so I decided to only purchase graded cards. Authentication was a key factor for me, which also explains my complete rejection of CGC today. Among graded cards, I only wanted the highest possible quality, so Gem Mint. Holo cards were already too expensive for me at that point, so based on my mindset, the obvious choice became the Base Set starters in PSA 10 in my native language. Those were my first purchases.

As I got more involved in the hobby through Facebook groups, I started thinking that I could expand my collection from a historical perspective by picking up the other commons and rares from the Base Set in PSA 10, which I did. Then I read somewhere that Skyridge was the least printed WOTC set and did not exist in my language, making it even rarer. So I bought some PSA 10 commons of Pokémon I really liked, like Arcanine, Moltres, and Vaporeon.

But then I realized how small my local market was. It was incredibly difficult to find even simple PSA 10 commons from the Base Set, and prices were often too high because there was almost no turnover. At that point, I was still buying what I loved, a piece of history in top condition. But I started thinking that card liquidity was important to me. Even though I was buying for fun, I needed to be able to sell if necessary. So I sold off all my Base Set cards.

From there, my collector profile started to become clearer. I wanted to combine passion with potential investment. I began building two collections in parallel. The first one involved high-value cards, often over a thousand euros, that I really liked but also believed had strong potential. I bought the three English gold star legendary dogs in PSA 10, which were relatively cheap compared to other gold stars because of their backstory. I also picked up Rayquaza, Latios, and Latias stars in PSA 10, but in Japanese because the English versions were way too expensive. Then I focused on promos that I loved and believed had big potential, like Mario Pikachu or Charizard from the Art Collection.

At the same time, I was also picking up niche cards that I loved purely for pleasure, without any resale potential. These included 1995/1997 Top Sun, anime Carddass, and Ken Sugimori Carddass.

Eventually, I started realizing that I was spreading myself too thin and spending money in too many different directions. As someone responsible for a family, I knew I had to be more careful with these expenses. So I began to reflect on my goals. I kept several collections in parallel, reminding myself that the key to good investing is diversification, and the key to buying in a risky collectible market is to only buy what you love, so you can enjoy it even if the price collapses and you’re stuck with it.

My two collecting directions became more defined. First, cards with real upside in my opinion, cards with history and actual rarity. I sold off my expensive set and promo cards like Gold Stars and Mario Pikachu to go after prize and trophy cards instead. The ultimate goal of that collection is to reach the highest level of trophy cards. Even if it ends with just one card at the top of the pyramid, I’ll be satisfied.

The second collection is much simpler and actually the reason I started writing this post. It involves buying cool, lower-cost cards on a regular basis. Old EX cards, full arts, promos, and so on. The goal is not to keep these cards forever, and I’m happy to sell them as soon as there’s a market bump, like recently when I sold quite a few. That’s also why I go after Gem Mint. There’s no price ceiling, unlike PSA 9s which will always be capped by PSA 10s.

For this side collection, I now focus exclusively on English cards for better liquidity and appreciation potential, and on Japanese-exclusive cards. Why do I buy them? Because I enjoy them. If the price doesn’t move, I’m happy to keep them. And if the price rises, I have no problem selling to free up cash to help push my main collection—the trophy one—to a higher level. At this stage, I prioritize trades and selling cards that have gained value, rather than injecting more money, which would be disproportionate given my personal life.

So now I find myself priced out of this second part of my collection, the one that used to be more casual and easygoing. I really enjoyed seeing it evolve organically through small purchases and occasional sales.

All this long post to say one thing. It’s important not to reduce people in this card world to a few stereotypes like “real collector,” “investor,” “scalper,” and so on. We all have a backstory that brought us here. Our goals and motivations are different, and most of all, they evolve.

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I was simply going to like your post when you said you played Pokemon Blue, but the rest of your post thoughtfully explained your collecting background. Thanks for clarifying and sharing your story!

Sounds like you know what options will work best for you given your personal and financial commitments. I do share your sentiment that the prices we are seeing today may appear daunting when solely purchasing the cards, but given your earlier exposure to the markets and existing cards in your collection, there are still plenty of opportunities for you to pursue the PSA 10 equivalent condition cards and expand your collection…pending your availability to be engaged in the hobby/markets.

Good luck!
cpbog1

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To be fair Dyl didn’t label you as any stereotype.

Thanks for sharing but in any case, your motivation is primarily profit and how your familiar strategy has been disrupted so it’s hard to feel any commiseration. Just learn more and adapt or wait it out.

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I’ve been priced out of authentic altered, run over by a truck 52 Topps Mantles for way longer than I’ve been priced out of PSA 10 vintage pokemon haha

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Just to be clear, I’m not looking for sympathy for my personal case. Like I said in my first post: ‘Just wanted to share this strong feeling and I’m sure I’m not the only one feeling it.’ I’m more trying to open up a discussion about what it means to be priced out. I shared my own case just to give some context on how hard the price hikes hit me personally. The point is really to open up and exchange feelings and experiences about all this.

I’ll just add that being priced out is one thing, but even being able to find certain cards in PSA 10 can be a challenge at times as well. This is actually one of the reasons I sort of ‘gave up’ on trying to complete PSA 10 sets. Not entirely, but I sort of stopped obsessing over it as much as before. So there’s always a challenge at times at all levels of collecting which makes it both fun & frustrating depending on how you look at it.

For now though this can maybe allow you to re-asses your collecting goals in the short and long term. Maybe just take a break, or find a way to boost or save your income to achieve your goals, or work on other goals you can complete more easily for now. The market continually goes through cycles of ups and downs. If you stay in it for the long term, you’ll probably achieve your goals eventually. But just keep in mind, we all have unique challenges and so don’t feel too bad if you can’t afford something quite yet. I’d sooner be unable to afford something as opposed to not even being able to find a copy :upside_down_face:.

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I liked your story but I will reply with one thing that stood out

While it’s true at any single point in time PSA 9 will be capped by PSA 10, long term if 10s have no price ceiling then functionally there’s no ceiling for 9s either.

The benefit of 9s is you can basically by five to ten PSA 9s for every one PSA 10, which is why they have always been a great option for collecting. The diversification aspect and lower cost (which sometimes means higher fold change) make them viable investment options too.

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Why the need to put down minimum wage workers?

Personally, I prefer buying slabs, because with the older stuff, it’s so hard to find mint. I know it’s somewhat frowned upon in this forum, but it’s ok for people to care about value lol

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Being priced out (PSA 9 copies)

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I wouldn’t say it’s frowned upon, many users care about value and are even full time sellers. Some people just have strong feelings about these things and discourage thinking too much about the monetary side because its so emphasized these days (arguably more than just loving the cards)

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If anyone can find a SNAP Pikachu that went through a washing machine or even got a tear, I’m already gladly spending thousands of USD on it rn. :sweat_smile:

Greetz,
Quuador

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I have one :

Trust me bro, it’s a SNAP Pika. I’ll DM you my bank info.

:thinking: Who’s that Pokémon?! It’s Greedent V:

Greetz,
Quuador

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