hi guys im thinking of buying 1 of these items, i love both cards so my question is which one do people think will bring in a better return long term? I realise these cards are so different in so many ways which makes it hard to show a true measure of comparison but any insights would be much appreciated 
Thatâs quite tough. What follows is just my personal opinion:
i would say at first pass master scroll simply because of rarity. Then again PSA 8 is a high grade for a 1st edition base Charizard. I think we will see the reality of it being a high grade over the next few years. What I mean by that is right now, for most cards PSA 8 and even PSA 9 in some cases (see 1st edition jungle or fossil holos) are still plentiful and cheap. Charizard is a little different story in that most collectors canât afford PSA 10 1st base Charizard anymore. Like not even possibly. Seriously Iâd have to spend nearly all of my annual income from my 9-5 just to afford it. PSA 9 is barely attainable for me, but I could get, but not comfortably. I personally settled for PSA 8 1st base Charizard because I got it around $2k, which was just affordable.
This anecdote is meant to show the thought processes of many collectors. Most people canât afford PSA 10 or even 9 and many maybe not even a 7 or 8. However, master scroll is a rare and unique item thatâs gained a lot of value in a relatively short span of time. I suppose it depends on your horizon. If you are talking a 5-10 year investment i personally think master scroll. If youâre talking 40-50 years, 1st edition base Charizard.
Tl;dr
1st base Charizard is and will always be the most sought after card in the hobby. Right now itâs still fairly affordable in PSA 7-9 grades, but there is a limited supply and while set cards seem like they will always be around, 1st base Charizard will not always be. Master scroll is a rare item that will likely outpace PSA 8 1st base Charizard in the short term.
â
It will be interesting to see what happens when 1st base Charizard supply nosedives while demand continues to grow.
2 Likes
Master scroll. I think psa 10 wonât always be around. The charizard will be more liquid and available.
Master Scroll is much rarer. Charizard is more popular. Both are good choices, just pick which one you like more.
8 Likes
Something being more liquid is a reference of itâs demand, not itâs supply. So Charizard being more liquid means you can sell it with little effort because the demand is so high. That doesnât really tell you how available it is. And itâs also all the more reason to invest in Charizard since you can sell it if in a financial hard spot.
Certainly PSA 10 master scroll wonât always be around, but are you so sure even PSA 8 1st base Charizard will always be around? I mean they are now, but we are talking about the most in-demand item in the hobby. There were thousands of 1st base Charizards printed, many more than master scroll. But looking 10, 20, or 30 years from now itâs not so apparent that master scroll will win out.
That said, master scroll is like a pseudo-trophy card so only time will tell.
Iâm just stirring the question, i personally donât know the answer.
1 Like
One appeals to a much larger audience. To me, it would be a no brainer to buy the Charizard if you had the opportunity. Itâs the most well known card in the hobby, youâll appreciate it and itâs proven.
The Scroll is a fun card to own and a great looking card. The Charizard is historic and iconic. Iâll take both;)
1 Like
I would pick the scroll. Psa 9 zards havenât moved despite psa 10 breaking records because there are so many 9s out there, 8 would take even longer to move.
Psa 10 master scroll however is already hard to find and will likely disappear way before psa 8 and above zards
1 Like
If youâre not worried about liquidity, Iâd definitely go for the scroll as well. The zard is not a bad option either, theyâre both safe bets.
Give it time. The record 10 prices will drag up the 9 price.
Honestly the 10 price increase will have 0 effect on a 9. Cards prices have nothing to do with a higher grade getting more expensive. Only thing that will make a card go up is supply going down and demand going up. Just a few months ago the 9 value finally hit 6k again. Then what happened everyone started posting and saturating the market and guess what itâs back down to around 5-5500. Supply and demand thatâs it.
Demand for 9s goes up when people who would otherwise be buying a 10 can no longer afford itâŚ
3 Likes
The 10s have been out of reach to most collectors for at least a couple years. I donât think affordability plays a huge role here. This same time last year they were selling for $7k while the 10s were barely above the $20k mark.
Youâd think people would buy out all the Shadowless 9s for $1500 now that the 10s earn $20k, but it literally had 0 effect so chris has a point here.
I must say thereâs too much flipping going on. When that supply dries up a little bit, we might have a better idea what theyâre worth. I know I wouldnât currently sell a 1st Ed Zard for less than $8k, but no one would pay that. Lol
Thatâs a short term fluctuation for people who would rather sell at peak price than hold onto it. It takes time, but slowly the Charizards that become available in 9 will be sold to people who will hold for decades, even while the price climbs. We are still fresh out of the massive price increase that occurred the last few years. So lots of folks are capitalizing on the increase who paid <$1000 for their 9.
Give it 10 or 15 years and PSA 9 drought will happen, maybe sooner. Especially as average spending power increases. Mind you the largest bulk of potential collectors are in the age range of 10-30 years old. When Iâm 45, if all goes well Iâll have enough income to be able to get a 9 myself, maybe 2. And Iâm holding for life.
1 Like
Selling for $7k consistently? Or was that a peak? Letâs come back to this thread in 10 years and weâll see. Supply for 9s is high, thatâs why stagnancy. It wonât last. I wonât pretend to know the timeline for sure, but Iâm just guessing a decade or so
Peak price of $7500-ish. I agree with you though about too much suplly, but I donât expect massive increases either.
1 Like
Nothing like the 10, agreed. But I personally think itâll shoot up, just at slower rate.
The original point I was addressing was that âthe 10 price increase will have 0 effect on a 9â. This is just untrue. The reason you canât find any graded 1st ed charizards under $1000 today is because the higher grades have become unrealistic for a lot of people so the demand trickles downward. You think if a 300 PSA 10s (and 0 PSA 9s) were graded tomorrow and the price was driven down to $7000 that the price of 9s wouldnât go down too?
Iâll agree that the effect is small but itâs not zero. Right now, the main thing keeping the price of 9s steady is supply. Any increase in demand caused by the rising PSA 10 price is mitigated by the availability of PSA 9s. This is especially true for shadowless given the ratio of 9s to 10s in the population. If thatâs what chrisâ main point was then I agree. The larger supply provides more inertia and the price climbs slower. Itâs not something that happens overnight.
I think people that are interested in a 1st charizard would rather wait until they have enough money aside to buy a PSA 10 one, than buying a PSA9 one. This is also why I think that PSA 8/9 charizards are the worse investment. People that buy a PSA 9 one do it only to flip down the line (or regrade), but the endgoal is always to get that PSA 10.
This is absolutely untrue on so many levels. Not everyone has a boner for everything PSA 10. There are plenty of collectors who buy a lower grade because of cost of capital, value, etc.
11 Likes